Am I racist? 2.0

[Angantyr]

Le Grand Remplacement

[Grytviken]

also, everyone remember: the first wave of seccession (south carolina, alabama, georgia, florida, mississippi) was certainly and undoubtedly brought on primarily by the slavery issue. specifically, the perceived threat of abolition of chattel slavery- a tyrant Lincoln indeed was but he was nothing like the abolitionist he was painted as throughout the south.

I think it was more a matter of honor for South Carolina. They clearly believed they were in a Union that enabled them to run a completely free and independent enterprise or they never would have joined the colonies in the revolution. Also although slavery was the breaking point, it is a matter of honor when someone not from your own turf suddenly tells you what you can and can't do, they threatened secession before over tarrifs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_Crisis

As a Southern Gentleman it was overtly offensive to be told what to do, it's an affront to your own masculinity, especially after leaving the British Empire for that very same reason less than 100 years earlier.

Honor was something Yankees no longer possessed, the scheming lying thieving bastards always profited off the back of slavery indirectly while shaking their finger at the South. Manufactured textiles made a much larger profit off of slave cotton than the plantation owners, plus they were aided by the government who maintained a "Yankee friendly" tax policy on those produced goods while attacking the source that made it all possible.

The newly formed Republican party in the United States was also viewed in the South as something like the Green party is now, third party lunatics. Lincoln's name didn't even appear on the Presidential voting ballots in 12 of 13 Southern states, so this was a major shock that someone who doesn't even show up on the voting ballot part of a newly formed radical political party is now your President. Their entire political platform was based on being Anti-Southern, enabling high tarrifs and Federally subsidized Northern economic growth (communist in nature) to raise national debt, basically they wanted the South to pay off their government loans thru tarrifs, taxes and National debt so they could further compete with Europe industrially.

Freeing the slaves only entered the mind of Yankdom years after the war began after they realized they were not going to win an honorable white man's war vs the South.

[Angantyr]

That's another thing, speaking of traditional American culture a few pages back; the honor culture and martial traditions of the South, tracing back to the Scotch-Irish herders who settled there. The men who made up the majority of US soldiers in the two world wars (and at home the workers in the munitions factories and shipyards). Even today 44% of all military recruits come from the South. As former Senator and Secretary of the Navy Jim Webb said of his own Southern, Scotch-Irish heritage: 'We have been soldiers for 2.000 years. The military virtues have been passed down at the dinner table.'

It is shameful to see the constant attacks on Southern identity by Hollywood and other coastal elites, making them out to be all hillbillys and white trash, and even more shameful to see the attacks on Southern heritage with the desecration and removal of Confederate monuments and other statues of great men.

As he camped in Mississippi in September 1863, Union General William T. Sherman observed in a letter of the 'young bloods of the South' he had been fighting:
'War suits them, and the rascals are brave, fine riders, bold to rashness … and they are the most dangerous set of men that this war has turned loose upon the world. They … must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace.'

[Grytviken]

That's another thing, speaking of true, traditional American culture a few pages back; the honor culture and martial traditions of the South, tracing back to the Scotch-Irish herders who settled there. The men who made up the majority of US soldiers in the two world wars (and at home the workers in the munitions factories and shipyards). The South has been the Peloponnesian War-era Spartans of America and the North the Athenians. As former Senator and Secretary of the Navy Jim Webb said of his own Southern, Scotch-Irish heritage; 'we have been soldiers for 2.000 years. The military virtues have been passed down at the dinner table.' Even today 44% of all military recruits come from the South.

It is shameful to see the constant attacks on Southern identity by Hollywood and other coastal elites, making them out to be all hillbillys and white trash, and even more shameful to see the attacks on Southern heritage with the desecration and removal of Confederate monuments and other statues of great men.

As he camped in Mississippi in September 1863, Union General William T. Sherman observed in a letter of the 'young bloods of the South' he had been fighting:
'War suits them, and the rascals are brave, fine riders, bold to rashness … and they are the most dangerous set of men that this war has turned loose upon the world. They … must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace.'

The whole reason that the CS President Jefferson Davis was not put on trial after the war is that there was a very real chance that the Southern cause would be found to be within constitutional bounds and President Lincoln's actions unconstitutional, especially after Habeas Corpus had been suspended in many states to deny them their right to democratically meet.

It would have been a political disaster for the North if the entire war was found to be unconstitutional, which is why it was better to push the politically correct although false narrative of "it was a righteous war to free slaves" many years after. The outcome was morally righteous in that fact but as we all know intent does not have to coincide or have anything to do with outcome.

 Many people will say " well South Carolina fired first " but this was simply retaliation for the government attempting to reinforce Forts in South Carolina through backdoor channels in the US government by going behind the secretary of wars back illegally by not following the legal protocols of deploying US troops. Many warnings were given and negotiations were underway before South Carolinians realized they were only a time delaying tactic while the new government was illegally sending reinforcements on unmarked ships.  Those forts were there for one reason alone, they had the ability to enforce unconstitutional tarrifs on imports and exports that the new government's entire platform was ran on to the detriment of state's like South Carolina. Not many people took it lightly that their own federal tax money was being spent on several fortresses that were pointing cannons at their own city, and rightfully so.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I think it was more a matter of honor for South Carolina. They clearly believed they were in a Union that enabled them to run a completely free and independent enterprise or they never would have joined the colonies in the revolution. Also although slavery was the breaking point, it is a matter of honor when someone not from your own turf suddenly tells you what you can and can't do, they threatened secession before over tarrifs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_Crisis

As a Southern Gentleman it was overtly offensive to be told what to do, it's an affront to your own masculinity, especially after leaving the British Empire for that very same reason less than 100 years earlier.

Honor was something Yankees no longer possessed, the scheming lying thieving bastards always profited off the back of slavery indirectly while shaking their finger at the South. Manufactured textiles made a much larger profit off of slave cotton than the plantation owners, plus they were aided by the government who maintained a "Yankee friendly" tax policy on those produced goods while attacking the source that made it all possible.

The newly formed Republican party in the United States was also viewed in the South as something like the Green party is now, third party lunatics. Lincoln's name didn't even appear on the Presidential voting ballots in 12 of 13 Southern states, so this was a major shock that someone who doesn't even show up on the voting ballot part of a newly formed radical political party is now your President. Their entire political platform was based on being Anti-Southern, enabling high tarrifs and Federally subsidized Northern economic growth (communist in nature) to raise national debt, basically they wanted the South to pay off their government loans thru tarrifs, taxes and National debt so they could further compete with Europe industrially.

Freeing the slaves only entered the mind of Yankdom years after the war began after they realized they were not going to win an honorable white man's war vs the South.

agreed with analysis of south carolina- although will also say that tariffs were very-little discussed by any of the states in their secession declarations and similar things. i don't necessarily agree with your statement that yanks were constantly wagging their fingers and claiming moral superiority over the slavery question. there weren't really that many abolitionists that took issue with slavery on moral or constitutional grounds; many of the republicans of the pre-war years that were "anti-slavery" essentially didn't want to ship a bunch of blacks into the new territories, both in order to protect the interests of free white labour and preferred demographics.

in the South common perception was absolutely that the republican party platform was practically abolition but this just isn't true. "black republican" was the pejorative mostly used by Southerners.

you're absolutely 100 percent correct about Sumter and the first entry-level bad take of the war of southern independence is "they shoulda just not fired at sumter and negotiated lol", i think. that fort had Charleston harbor completely at its mercy and significant fleet of ships were moored there at the time- to a new nation already disadvantaged in naval power, you can't be having that shit.

here's a really good series if you guys are into this sort of a thing: really enjoyed his bits on the Drug War, Nicaraguan Filibuster(s), and antebellum period check this out:

[Grytviken]

agreed with analysis of south carolina- although will also say that tariffs were very-little discussed by any of the states in their secession declarations and similar things. i don't necessarily agree with your statement that yanks were constantly wagging their fingers and claiming moral superiority over the slavery question. there weren't really that many abolitionists that took issue with slavery on moral or constitutional grounds; many of the republicans of the pre-war years that were "anti-slavery" essentially didn't want to ship a bunch of blacks into the new territories, both in order to protect the interests of free white labour and preferred demographics.

in the South common perception was absolutely that the republican party platform was practically abolition but this just isn't true. "black republican" was the pejorative mostly used by Southerners.

Tariffs would have fell under a broad category of self-determination, general welfare etc, all of these grievances except slavery were mentioned in Jefferson Davis' inaugural address. Tariffs were mainly not mentioned by name because the South had dodged the Morril Tariff by seceding which would have increased duties by 70%. This Tarrif had been passed in the House by Republicans before Lincoln was inaugurated. Considering the original 13 Colonies declared independence from Britain over a 1-2% tax increase I don't know why people find it unfathomable that the South wanted to leave over a proposed 70% tax increase.

To the suggestion by the Virginian Commissioners to abandon Fort Sumter Lincoln replied, “If I do that, what would become of my revenue? I might as well shut up housekeeping [federal spending] at once!”

[Sandersson Jankins]

Tariffs would have fell under a broad category of self-determination, general welfare etc, all of these grievances except slavery were mentioned in Jefferson Davis' inaugural address. Tariffs were mainly not mentioned by name because the South had dodged the Morril Tariff by seceding which would have increased duties by 70%. This Tarrif had been passed in the House by Republicans before Lincoln was inaugurated. Considering the original 13 Colonies declared independence from Britain over a 1-2% tax increase I don't know why people find it unfathomable that the South wanted to leave over a proposed 70% tax increase.

To the suggestion by the Virginian Commissioners to abandon Fort Sumter Lincoln replied, “If I do that, what would become of my revenue? I might as well shut up housekeeping [federal spending] at once!”

unfamiliar with the specifics of the Morril Tariff, so can't really say anything in good faith on that. i'll read some about it, and check out that link. here's muh favorite weekly podcast on the topic(s)

[Golem]

Well I've figured it out. Clearly Aliens have contacted Earth and they will allow only a few people to Ascend. These will be the elite, namely those who score the highest killstreaks with their nuclear weapons. Immigrants are therefore better for those world leaders, because they reproduce faster than the native population. Seeing that a single nuke in an inopportune place will affect birthrates around the globe, the faster their country can get the highest population, so that they can nuke it, the better. It's a meatspace-armsrace.



                                                                                                                   /s

[Angantyr]

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https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/05/11/yougov-data-reveals-what-europeans-think-are-most-/

National publics in 11-country study consistently name immigration and terrorism as key issues facing the EU.

For the State of the Union conference at the European University Institute in Florence this week YouGov has conducted new research in 11 EU states.

We polled the six largest EU countries (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Poland), along with Denmark, Sweden, Greece and Lithuania, to ensure a broad coverage of different parts of the EU.

[Jona]

(click to show/hide)

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Why even show an answer when the % giving that answer it is so low? There's no way 5% of voters can be the majority vote, especially with only 15 options.

[Golem]

Isn't 5% the minimum majority, though? Here it is anyway.

[Grytviken]

unfamiliar with the specifics of the Morril Tariff, so can't really say anything in good faith on that. i'll read some about it, and check out that link. here's muh favorite weekly podcast on the topic(s)

That video has a pretty good take on things but if you are viewing the South's perspective through 2018 standards and morals you will always come up shorthanded which is why it was so easy for post-modern historians to turn Lincoln into this mythical figure of a saint and deity when the reality couldn't be any further from the truth. With Slavery being at the center of all the political controversy leading up to the war there is no doubt it was spun as propaganda for the masses on both sides. The story of John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry would have been told and speculated over and over by newspapers as they were  the only way to get information at the time, they served as valuable propaganda tools for the North and South. Some Northern newspapers were sympathetic and supportive of John Brown's raid that amounted to little more then felony murders on innocent civilians, even killing a free black man. This enraged the South and increased paranoia and tensions.

In the bigger economic and political picture there really was no reason for the South to stay in the Union at that point in time. Jeffersonian Democracy was the prevalent ideology in the South which viewed the Union as a mere Confederation of Independent States and the Federal government as merely a common agent which was subservient to the Independent States. There were no redeeming qualities of the Union after Lincoln was elected, they realized the fact that politics from thereon would be dominated by a populous Northern majority and from there on the South's future would not be in their own hands solely which was a breach of their rights to self-determination. The South was already extremely rich from Free Trade and could only look forward to more tariff's and tension with Northern states that had little to nothing in common with them economically or socially, the Morril tariff although largely insignificant because it was avoided by the Civil War shows that the South was right in their assumptions that the North was planning to implement economic dominance over the South politically through the centralized government to fund their protectionist industrial expansion.

[Oberyn]

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[Golem]

Again with the MS Paint graphs that only record transient data. And again it's semantically meaningless.

[Oberyn]

K, tard.