Author Topic: A new approach to lancing  (Read 11706 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2011, 12:06:14 pm »
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true but then all bump slashing even with 1handers is totally retarded, only balanced by the fact its quite hard to do.

The bumpslash thingy is the only thing that makes 1h cav barely playable. Remove it (and honestly I don't know how can you remove that without ruining anything) and you buff poking cav even more.

It's very hard to do without a JetPony (and way too easy with one  :?), since people can jump on the sides and simply "slide" around your bump range very easily if your horse doesn't have crazy maneuver (riding skill is important too). Moreover, maybe it's "extremely annoying, dishonourable, impossible to defend against and unrealistic", but why don't you remove ranged weapons then ?

Offline BULLDOG

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2011, 12:36:11 pm »
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You really nerf this nice mod to death someday because of a bunch of whiney players which are complaining about everything. Really sad !!

Ps. I´m not playing as Cav or Archer and I never did.
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Offline Ikarus

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2011, 01:33:09 pm »
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"Disable manual blocking on all lances"
Are you serious? When you look at the people ingame, they as good as never block on the horse efficently, blocking thrust attacks is the only thing cavalery can do properly.

About the damage: Be realistic, if a horse comes up to you in fullspeed and the guy on it stabs you with all his strengh with a lance (which isn´t light at all), you would probably die even with a heavy armor because of the impact, which deformes the armor. A lot of knights died on the field because they couldn´t breathe anymore due to their deformed armor. But the poke shouldnt be nearly as strong as the couchattack if it was realistic, that´s right. But also don´t forget that you can block that "mighty poke" easily, because you can always hear the upcoming horse and prepare yourself.

And if cavalery pisses you off, make yourself an archer, or better, horsearcher. Not even pikes bring down more horses than a horse archer.

So I only agree with this when horse archers are removed from the game  :lol:. That´s something which I think is unfair. The balance all in all is great as it is now.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 01:36:08 pm by Ikarus »
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Offline Dezilagel

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2011, 04:34:31 pm »
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Oh my...  :shock:

But also don´t forget that you can block that "mighty poke" easily, because you can always hear the upcoming horse and prepare yourself.

Ur joking right? The sound system in warband is fail, and volume is flunked so many times you won't hear them (i.e. it sounds like they're really far away) before it's too late. And when you turn around you rarely have more than half a second to react as horses are super-fast and have godawful maneuver atm. Which means that if it's not a poke, but a bump/couch coming that downblock of yours is gonna be useless.

And if cavalery pisses you off, make yourself an archer, or better, horsearcher. Not even pikes bring down more horses than a horse archer.

Sorry for caps but WHY THE
(click to show/hide)
should cav force me to play "friendly archer" (HA is even worse). The last thing this mod needs is more ranged spam.
Also, pikes are not usable for bringing down horses, they're merely for defence (i.e. scaring them off). (As unless cav flunks up or plays stupid, a pike is never going to hit him)
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Offline Tavuk_Bey

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2011, 06:40:42 pm »
-1
NO
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Offline Seawied

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2011, 07:20:32 pm »
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About the damage: Be realistic, if a horse comes up to you in fullspeed and the guy on it stabs you with all his strengh with a lance (which isn´t light at all), you would probably die even with a heavy armor because of the impact, which deformes the armor. A lot of knights died on the field because they couldn´t breathe anymore due to their deformed armor. But the poke shouldnt be nearly as strong as the couchattack if it was realistic, that´s right. But also don´t forget that you can block that "mighty poke" easily, because you can always hear the upcoming horse and prepare yourself.

not sure what your point is here?
And if cavalery pisses you off, make yourself an archer, or better, horsearcher. Not even pikes bring down more horses than a horse archer.
Read the first post. I have a horse archer. His name is "Seawied."
So I only agree with this when horse archers are removed from the game  :lol:. That´s something which I think is unfair. The balance all in all is great as it is now.

HA argument really belong in a different thread. This is talking about internal cav balance among lancers.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Ujin

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2011, 07:25:09 pm »
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Offline Glyph

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Glyph you have obsessive Horse Archer and Horse hatred.
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Offline Havoc134

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2011, 07:42:45 pm »
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Oh my...  :shock:

Ur joking right? The sound system in warband is fail, and volume is flunked so many times you won't hear them (i.e. it sounds like they're really far away) before it's too late. And when you turn around you rarely have more than half a second to react as horses are super-fast and have godawful maneuver atm. Which means that if it's not a poke, but a bump/couch coming that downblock of yours is gonna be useless.

Sorry for caps but WHY THE
(click to show/hide)
should cav force me to play "friendly archer" (HA is even worse). The last thing this mod needs is more ranged spam.
Also, pikes are not usable for bringing down horses, they're merely for defence (i.e. scaring them off). (As unless cav flunks up or plays stupid, a pike is never going to hit him)

I believe this is starting to show infantry's attitude towards the poke vs. couch debate. Infantry prefer to be able to downblock defeat cavalry and cavalry have couching as a risky mechanism to defeat this if infantry is careless enough to let it happen. I myself am using the couch with my heavy lance more and more now that infantry spams downblock and leaves me with maybe 1 or 2 archer kills before my horse gets downed. Imo balancing the two mechanisms is unnecessary

Offline Seawied

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2011, 08:18:02 pm »
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDsUNvDshw8


Upon Ujin's suggestion, I'd like to suggest we add a courtesy lick to the implementation of these changes as well.


@Havoc I'm using couch less and less. Aside from the extensive amount of time I spent testing couched lances in the most recent patch, I've found a couched lance is only superior to a poked lance in about 1 out of 20 situations.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Havoc134

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2011, 03:42:31 am »
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Yes its probably something similar for me, what I'm arguing is that such "rare" situational usefulness for the couched lance is actually a good thing since its just a tool in the lancer's arsenal to counter infantry invincibility mode (downblock)

Offline Dezilagel

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2011, 02:16:44 pm »
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Please...

If you had read what I actually wrote, you would have understood that the problem with poking vs couching is NOT the mechanics in themselves (I fully support long poke vs short couch, makes cav fights more interesting), but the fact that atm cav is so frippin' fast and maneuverable (combined with the broken sound system).

Fix those issues, make fighting lancecav less of a guessing game.
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Offline MrExxc

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2011, 05:11:12 pm »
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Cav is good as it is now, look around, if a cav charges you, well you do the UBER-complicated down block, if he charges you with a couched lance, you move to the side since it's easily dodgeable. I have a cav alt, I suck at it, I think they got a pretty hard time to deal with infantry's friggin 5 meter long lances and range spam. A bit of awareness of your surroundings and I think you don't have to fear cav.

Every class has their weaknesses and strenghts, and imho the cav is balanced as it is now.

Offline 22nd_King_Plazek

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2011, 05:43:53 pm »
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Cav is good as it is now, look around, if a cav charges you, well you do the UBER-complicated down block, if he charges you with a couched lance, you move to the side since it's easily dodgeable. I have a cav alt, I suck at it, I think they got a pretty hard time to deal with infantry's friggin 5 meter long lances and range spam. A bit of awareness of your surroundings and I think you don't have to fear cav.

Every class has their weaknesses and strenghts, and imho the cav is balanced as it is now.

Please...

If you had read what I actually wrote, you would have understood that the problem with poking vs couching is NOT the mechanics in themselves (I fully support long poke vs short couch, makes cav fights more interesting), but the fact that atm cav is so frippin' fast and maneuverable (combined with the broken sound system).

Fix those issues, make fighting lancecav less of a guessing game.


This affects all cavalry equally.
Worst of all it would hurt 1h and 2h cavalry more than lancers.

How many times does it have to be said that this thread is about the inequity between lance cavalry vs other types of melee cavalry.

Offline Seawied

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Re: A new approach to lancing
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2011, 06:39:40 am »
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This affects all cavalry equally.
Worst of all it would hurt 1h and 2h cavalry more than lancers.

How many times does it have to be said that this thread is about the inequity between lance cavalry vs other types of melee cavalry.

Indeed. Poke lancing currently rules supreme. Takes the least amount of skill for the highest reward out of all of the cavalry builds.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol: