Is the conflict in Syria turning into a proxy war?

[Eugen]

So it looks like Russia does something right for a change. Helping Assad to gain control is at least a step in the direction of some stability imho. Assad may not be a peoples hero - but he could keep the radicals at bay - better then some funded rebels for shure.

I dont think the arabic world would need one more revolution of the people leaving power vacum and civil unrest behind - opening the countriy up for radicals to take over.

A real change can not be force by foreign money, weapons and training but only from inner will.

[[ptx]]

Arguing with Durrmillus?
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[Murmillus_Prime]

Lmao. So you can't disprove much of what I've posted and you still attack me? Come on, get a grip!

Disprove FSA and ISIS co-operating, working together. Prove there is a moderate opposition. Disprove the U.S/West is backing a non-existent moderate opposition and that its weapons end up falling into the hands of the extremists. How else did IS get hold of all those lovely Toyota pickups?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/revealed-what-the-west-has-given-syrias-rebels-8756447.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22906965

I quote:

"But on 14 June 2013 Washington said it would give the rebels "direct military aid" after concluding Syrian troops had used chemical weapons."
"In June 2012, US officials said CIA officers were operating in Turkey, helping decide which groups would receive weapons"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10283758/First-Syria-rebels-armed-and-trained-by-CIA-on-way-to-battlefield.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-ramping-up-covert-training-program-for-moderate-syrian-rebels/2013/10/02/a0bba084-2af6-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_story.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/10/cia-backed-syrian-rebels-were-making-gains-before-russian-intervention/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/02/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-idUSKCN0RV41O20151002

You're not just supporting Saudi-Arabia but you're also supporting their head cutting proxies. You can't get worse than that buddy. You guys can't disprove shit and still throw around the retard word. If you want to find a retard, look yourselves in the mirror.

[Xant]

Murmillus pulls the good old Tovi maneuver of posting total bullshit, ignoring it when his sources turn out to be a computer game, and just continuing to post total crap.

[Molly]

Murmillus pulls the good old Tovi maneuver of posting total bullshit, ignoring it when his sources turn out to be a computer game, and just continuing to post total crap.

Called it first

[Torben]

A real change can not be force by foreign money, weapons and training but only from inner will.

true,  but helping a tyrant keeping his power is just as fucked up.  terror from an "official" regime cant be called stability.  In fact,  the only force in syria working by the geneva convention are the kurds.  The only right thing would have been to let them do their thing in northern syria.  Unfortunately Erdogan wont let that happen.  I hope for the sake of the whole region, including turkey ofc,  that he wont win the next elections.  but thanks to the support of western politicians he is gaining momentum once again.

so all in all syria is once again playground of foreign powers,  isis just being a symptom of their games.

sry for not reading rest and posting randomly,  but fug,  way long convo alrerdy

[Grytviken]

You're not just supporting Saudi-Arabia but you're also supporting their head cutting proxies. You can't get worse than that buddy. You guys can't disprove shit and still throw around the retard word. If you want to find a retard, look yourselves in the mirror.

   So when a dictator calls in three foreign powers, Iran, Russia and Lebanon to openly help him attack his own citizens you don't see anything wrong here? You don't see any kind of weakness or desperation?
   

[Vovka]

   So when a dictator calls in three foreign powers, Iran, Russia and Lebanon to openly help him attack his own citizens you don't see anything wrong here? You don't see any kind of weakness or desperation?
 

These citizens anyway would have died driving a car bomb so its ok

[Murmillus_Prime]

   So when a dictator calls in three foreign powers, Iran, Russia and Lebanon to openly help him attack his own citizens you don't see anything wrong here? You don't see any kind of weakness or desperation?
 

Attacking "your own citizens" with vehicle based improvised explosive devices, "hell cannons" and chemical weapons is ok though right? As is religiously and ethnically cleansing numerous ethno-religious groups who've existed in Syria for hundreds of years simply because they won't conform to a particular interpretation of Islam. These ethno-religious groups co-existed under Assad, they will not be allowed to exist under Saudi backed puppets. There will be ethnic cleansing and you support it.

Retards go in and destabilise Libya, turn a relatively developed nation into a shithole cus "big bad evil diktater" and now retards want to do the same in Syria. Retards like you support the very same type of terrorism that thrives on the ideology which drove jihadi's to gun down innocent civilians on beaches, in cartoon studios, on trains and on buses.  Brain dead pricks like you, Xant, Molly and PTX won't be satisfied until we're all living under the black flag of the caliphate.

We cannot export democracy, we cannot export freedom, we cannot export western values. That is not how the world works, it not realistic to think we can and it's about time idiots like you come back to reality and pop those bubbles you're living in.

And you know what, I'm not usually an advocate for the consensus in arguments. I'm aware that the majority can be wrong as they have been time and time again, but in this case it seems the consensus supports Russia's position and rightfully so too. It seems your anti-Russian hate will trump any logic or sense, if Russia's interests are hurt that's all you care about even if the means to do so come back and bite us all on the arses afterwards, sees hundreds of thousands of people killed and the survivors living under religious oppression.

[Piok]

In Comparison to Saudi Arabia and most gulf states  Syria was beacon of tolerance and democracy.

[Leshma]

So it looks like Russia does something right for a change.

Easy to say its right thing to do when bombs aren't flying above your head.

[cup457]

the problem with Assad in syria is that he is a christian ruling over a mixed muslim/catholic nation. Religions not not really mix well ever. The cia funding for afghanistan was relevant because we gave them a fuck ton of stinger missles back in the 80s which i guarantee were not used up, and back in the early 2000s it was worried that they would be used to bring down passenger planes or USAF planes. When CIA funds things its not really the training or guns its advanced technology like stinger missles that ends up there to that the terrorists would not normally get access to.

[Murmillus_Prime]

the problem with Assad in syria is that he is a christian ruling over a mixed muslim/catholic nation. Religions not not really mix well ever. The cia funding for afghanistan was relevant because we gave them a fuck ton of stinger missles back in the 80s which i guarantee were not used up, and back in the early 2000s it was worried that they would be used to bring down passenger planes or USAF planes. When CIA funds things its not really the training or guns its advanced technology like stinger missles that ends up there to that the terrorists would not normally get access to.

Sorry to correct you but he's an Alawite which is a sect of Shia Islam. The country he presides over is inhabited by both Muslims of Sunni, Shia, Alawi persuasions and other Islamic offshoots plus Christians, Druze and other ethno-religious groups.

The Wahhabist ideology being peddled from Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan, (both of which were backers of the Taliban who the CIA aided in overthrowing the Communist government in Afghanistan and whom helped established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan afterwards), will not tolerate people worshiping other religions, gods or interpretations of Islam. They will tax, hang and stone their way to dominance and oppress the multicultural melting pot that was Syria, if they succeed that is.

Which is why its important that Russia, Iran, Lebanon, Iraq and others ensure that Saudi-Arabia, the Gulf states, Turkey, NATO members, Israel and others don't have their way in Syria as they did in Libya.

[BASNAK]

convert my old friendets

_{I dont know what the fuck this is}

[Grytviken]

Which is why its important that Russia, Iran, Lebanon, Iraq and others ensure that Saudi-Arabia, the Gulf states, Turkey, NATO members, Israel and others don't have their way in Syria as they did in Libya.

  Right.. because it has nothing to do with more than half the country of Syria wanting nothing to do with him. If he is a great leader why do the majority of his own countrymen hate him?