Is the conflict in Syria turning into a proxy war?

[Grytviken]

How can you possibly blame the poor muslims for sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing, don't you know the US is 110% responsable? They were literally forced to slaughter each other while calling on their religion and god as justifications (obviously merely as a form of exploitation, all their tribal and religious leaders are cynics who don't really entertain any of these notions beyond what it can do for them politically, only an islamophobe would suggest otherwise). Anyways, it's all obviously a long term plan by the US and their Israeli puppet masters to plunge the middle east into chaos and make muslims suffer, all of this was foreseen and expected, encouraged by the crusaders and zionists every step of the way. The muslims are merely victims, as they always are.

 All the bleeding heart left-wing traitors here are trying to recreate the same pathetic scene we saw in Europe with the #RefugeesWelcome bullshit. The ONLY refugees at risk are the Syrian Christians who are forced to live with Muslims in these large European refugee camps who are being assaulted/raped/robbed by Muslims and are too afraid to go to the authorities because they will risk losing their asylum status. The left-wing nuts here are acting like the Muslim refugees are going to starve to death in Germany and Sweden..

[Oberyn]

Are you going to calm down any time soon Oberyn? You have been in this angry forum crusademode for some time now. 

http://takimag.com/article/give_hate_a_chance_gavin_mcinnes#axzz3s99e2z9f

He's absolutely right. The abject submission of my countrymen to kumbayaa delusions is sickening, not to mention the completely expected rationalizations of "french" muslims. Bunch of weak-kneed bundle of stickss. The sort of reaction that cunts like Heskey are proud of. Hate breeds hate, unless that hate is directed at western europeans, in which case all it breeds is shame and guilt and endless excuses for why that hate is perfectly normal and rational. This country is fucked, time to learn polish and get out. We deserve everything that is coming.

[Grytviken]

http://takimag.com/article/give_hate_a_chance_gavin_mcinnes#axzz3s99e2z9f

He's absolutely right. The abject submission of my countrymen to kumbayaa delusions is sickening, not to mention the completely expected rationalizations of "french" muslims. Bunch of weak-kneed bundle of stickss. The sort of reaction that cunts like Heskey are proud of. Hate breeds hate, unless that hate is directed at western europeans, in which case all it breeds is shame and guilt and endless excuses for why that hate is perfectly normal and rational. This country is fucked, time to learn polish and get out. We deserve everything that is coming.

 It's also this same kind of kumbayaa doctrine Obama has forced upon our military leaders that allows ISIS to survive. Don't want to bomb their supply and logistics centers because it will have an adverse effect on the civilian population under their control etc. All bullshit. Until they can learn to separate religion from politics they deserve to get buttfucked by Putin and Assad. Is it right? no. Is it probably the only immediate solution to this madness? Yes.
 
  Putin is offering us a liability free solution to the problem. Unguided massive indiscriminate bombing, you can't get any more multi-cultural than that. The Kurds are capturing ISIS territory and the populace loyal to them simply flees to Europe, and then people wonder why there are terrorist threats etc. It's a big joke.

[Tibe]

  Putin is offering us a liability free solution to the problem. Unguided massive indiscriminate bombing, you can't get any more multi-cultural than that.

Things in Russia work differently than they do in the US. Unlike US, where you basically get shit from everyone including your own people for bombing anything, to the point that any politician related to those events has a deadline in his political career. The Russian government does not have that issue. It practically has the power to shut everybody up in their own country forcefully and not suffer for it at all. This actually allows them to have significantly more free hands to basically bomb everything and claim anything.

To be honest I think it would be quite wise to let Russia loose in the Middle-East. They could finally act out their powerfantasies, the patriots get to jack off on the exploding motherlands bombs videos and ontop of that ISIS gets fucked. And even if they fuck up big time, this time they couldnt pin it on the West.

[Grytviken]

Things in Russia work differently than they do in the US. Unlike US, where you basically get shit from everyone including your own people for bombing anything, to the point that any politician related to those events has a deadline in his political career. The Russian government does not have that issue. It practically has the power to shut everybody up in their own country forcefully and not suffer for it at all. This actually allows them to have significantly more free hands to basically bomb everything and claim anything.

To be honest I think it would be quite wise to let Russia loose in the Middle-East. They could finally act out their powerfantasies, the patriots get to jack off on the exploding motherlands bombs videos and ontop of that ISIS gets fucked. And even if they fuck up big time, this time they couldnt pin it on the West.

  Kurdish women have been doing all the fighting so far and are beating ISIS soundly with western air support, although progress is slow. The only people who deserve anything out of this conflict IMO are the Kurds. If anything good is to come out of this conflict it will be a Kurdish national state. The local Muslim states in the area have a combined military of over 8 million and they refuse to fight ISIS and denounce their perception of Islam. If Putin would come aboard on this issue he would have alot more support.

 Since the Turks don't feel inclined to use their military for any good purpose, they should cede some of their territory to these Kurdish women warriors, as a debt for keeping the hostile expansion of ISIS in check.

 Also since ISIS has personally messed with Putin, I could care less what he does to get the job done, he could bomb the Egyptian Pyramids for all I care, he should be free to take whatever action he deems necessary to avenge his countrymen. Other Muslim states have had years to intervene on their behalf to show the world that they can control their own and have failed miserably.

[Butan]

The left-wing nuts here are acting like the Muslim refugees are going to starve to death in Germany and Sweden..

Refugee life is not really the pimp life either. Also muslim refugees are refugees first.

[Leshma]

The only people who deserve anything out of this conflict IMO are the Kurds.

It's not about who deserves what but who's willing to accept certain propositions. There is a reason Turkey exist today in this shape and form. They are useful American ally for decades, if they weren't country would be split into many different national states (joke is on those who believe their Turkey is strong enough to fight USA, NATO or even Russia). Kurds are too much socialist for American taste and will never get their support, much like Armenians.

Edit: This is useful article to get some perspective on Kurdish issue - http://peacemagazine.org/archive/v08n2p19.htm

I especially like this quote:

There are no permanent friends or enemies, only permanent U.S. interests.

[Angantyr]

A slight sidetrack but it was quite the sight to see Kurds walk in Pegida rallies in Dresden.

[Leshma]

Why is that strange? Same as with Jews, they are at war with muslim countries for decades. Of course they'll be very vocal and side with those who oppose muslims.

[Angantyr]

I don't find it strange, I applaud it.

[Grytviken]

It's not about who deserves what but who's willing to accept certain propositions. There is a reason Turkey exist today in this shape and form. They are useful American ally for decades, if they weren't country would be split into many different national states (joke is on those who believe their Turkey is strong enough to fight USA, NATO or even Russia). Kurds are too much socialist for American taste and will never get their support, much like Armenians.

Edit: This is useful article to get some perspective on Kurdish issue - http://peacemagazine.org/archive/v08n2p19.htm

I especially like this quote:

 Yea it's a very complex problem. Iraq doesn't want to cede territory to them either. If they aren't given a totally independent state hopefully the Iraqi government will accept them running an autonomous state much like the Hong Kong special administration district, with it's own separate laws and leaders and military.

  Since the Kurds don't officially have their own nation it is very difficult to directly support them or their cause, hopefully this time will be different because I don't think Iraq will have a choice other than to recognize their state. The concern is that if Iraq loses large sections of their territory to ethnic/religious partitions the rest of Iraq will get swallowed up as well from outside influence.

 Also the US will never fight Turkey. They are viewed as the only model state for any Muslim country in the area compared to others. The obvious diplomatic problems a Kurdish state will cause will be opposed by Turkey ofc. Early into the Iraq conflict Turkey offered the US to send troops into specific areas of Iraq (all Kurdish areas) and their offer was declined.

[Angantyr]

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What they want is to kill us. Turning the other cheek just makes it easier. Did you see the extremely publicized response of the man whose wife got killed? His child will grow up without a mother and his reaction is to pretend he is living in some sort of fucking Hollywood movie. And this is lauded and aplauded. "I will not give you the gift of my hate", it's pathetic. How many more families have had a completely different and justified reaction of hatred and loathing for the assholes who murdered their loved ones? Why aren't those responses publicized and published and lauded? Doesn't fit with the apathetic, passive reaction narrative that should be addopted, apparently. Do you really think daesh's main goal is to get westerners to hate them (as if we needed any more reasons) so there can be a game of 11th dimensional chess where this somehow makes daesh stronger? How many times must they clearly state their intentions, how many more dead before these idiots blinded by childish disney level reasoning open their eyes? "Violence never solves anything, it's because of (our) violence that daesh exists in the first place, what we need is MORE tolerance and love and multiculturalism".

These muslim extremists are insane, they truly think they will fulfill some sort of apocalyptic prophecy if the countries and cultures they loathe and attack relentlessly finally do what they should have done years ago, and your response is to go "We shouldn't completely obliterate these backwards pieces of shit, this is exactly what they want". Yes, because they think they're protected by divine providence and fate, that if the west invades them it will end up in the west's destruction. And you take these delusions seriously? It's time to give them exactly what they want. Let them face armies instead of slaughtering defenceless civilians. What do you idiots think, that if we put boots on the ground daesh will somehow come out victorious? Same thing will happen as always happens whenever these pieces of shit come up against the armies of modern western nations. They will just turn their hatred inward and go for easier targets, as happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. Western hatred or lack thereof is completely irrelevant, they don't need the actions of "crusaders" to galvanize their own hatred, "tolerance and understanding" will not disarm them of it. There's more than enough reasons and justifications of their own agency. The planet does not revolve around us, not everything that happens is a "reaction" to us.

Some of our current cultural dispositions are food for thought in regards to Nietzche's master\slave morality.

The slave morality of the kind, meek, weak, self-denying and Christian downtrodden human morality, in contrast to the healthy, living master morality, where fullness of life, self-expression, pride, strength and nobility are the highest values.

[Leshma]

I hear these days that ISIS is packing and moving to a new place. Balkans they say, to start new caliphate here. Our European friends seem to be happy supporting idea of migration as long its not in their backyards which translates into "refugees may come to south-eastern Europe but must stay there". Balkan based ISIL caliphate makes sense, kinda.

[Falka]

Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border
 
Turkish military official says fighter jets destroyed plane after it violated country’s airspace, which Russia denies

Turks, are you mad?