... and trying to make it a bit like mid 2012 would be good to make some people come back.
If you're lazy/unwilling to understand my reasonment, scroll down all this. If you're just an idiot that isn't even willing to read the TLDR part, well, eject from thread.
Why rewanping balance ? Because I remembered how fucking awesome it was when there was actually some teamplay, when people going full rambo actually had what they were looking for : a retarded way to die alone on battlefield. I would love to get back to some kind of population around 70 players on EU1, because I'm growing tired of the usual bullshit that consists in checking if the server's pop is around 40 so I can join for 30 mins before I GTX because people take 5 arrows and still fight/allies prefer charging into ennemies with not a single clue about tactics/over powered mechanics, weapons, builds, and classes people abuse. It makes it incredibly annoying to play, really.
So, I would like to say basically, to anyone who would like to see some people coming back, or coming simply; to read what I wrote some time ago in this sub forum.
Basically, there should be some classed that everyone can go for, that will deal sufficient damages, easy to understand, but that got limited power -> easy, but not abusable by old players, that should go for something else more rewarding. These classes in history, normally were either pikeman/spearman or persons with bows, crossbows, or with throwing weaponry, affordable for everyone (ok, not for the crossbow part, a peasant cannot afford an arbalest), and extremely simple to use, in all cases (what is hard in staying behind real melee players to give them support and cover ?).
How to make it rewarding for new players and non abusable by old ones ? Don't know at all about that. Some builds, with high level, tend to become extremely over powered (either some insanely fast guy, dealing utterly retarded damages because bonus speed, or some 27/21 build, one hitting people and tanking everything).
Ranged should be some kind of rewarding for new players because a lot of players played this class in native, it's THE meta class you played in singleplayer/multi at the beggining. To illustrate, in cRPG, throwers got low ammo, but should deal normally huge damage (taking a jarid in the head shouldn't let you alive, come on...). Everything should be done with this class to be playable by new players, but ... atm, it's expensive, heavy (retarded weight on stacks), and "eats" your melee ability, unless you're high level. The fact throwing was historically very used in armies by peasants is explainned by the simplicity of the work : you come, you throw some lances/axes, and you charge and die for your motherland. Simple, but quite limiting compared to archery and crossbowmen, that got more durability, shooting from far and staying in safe zones controlled by the team, and aiming skill is setting the skill ceilling a bit higher compared to throwing, since you know you won't 1 or 2 hit kills quickly (with arbalest, a missed shot can be fatal, with a bow, a missed shot is almost nothing, but you need more than 4 arrows to kill the medium armored lad nowadays).
About spearmen, make it forgiving (increase the landing zone of stabs maybe ?), but buff the other melee classes at the same to avoid that a lot of old players go for these classes, that are less rewarding than shielder, 2h, polearmer, etc ...
TLDR : Reduce ranged's weapons's price (make it affordable in this order : throwing, archery, crossbows). Then, buff throwing damages and make it more randomized (if you have aiming skills, you'll go archer or crossbowman), and buff support melee classes in a way or another (reduce greatly the price, make stabbing a bit easier to handle, and increase the variety of 1d and 2d weapons, put some with low price filling their own niche), but buff all damages of melee weapons to avoid having a shitload of pikemen and spearmen.
I believe it's imperfect as hell, but I think it must be reflected on, particularly on the melee part. Oh, and sorry for the wall of text, but nothing is simple anymore.
Even thought some things can seem to be unbalanced/strange in this proposal, I believe it's one of the only way to actually fill again servers. Why is it so important ? Because when there are a shit load of people, it not on the same scale : you can't compare a street fight and a real battle. A real battle means teamplay, organized assaults and defences, clans putting on togethers to fight the other team. For that you need a people. And to have some people playing, you need to improve their experience, whether new or old. To get an oldmy old friend playing, you need a server with a decent population, with some intense and tactical fight going. To get new players playing ... you need to tell them to play after you improved their arrival to the mod. Yes, things have been done, but more is needed to do. As Panuru/Rico said on the thread, giving advices and builds on the website along with a description of the role, strength and weaknesses of a class is a way to do it. But lets go a bit further, and introduce a message to log on cRPG.net to create an account, and making its creation extremely simple, in detailled steps, with literally all things written (if they made an error, they should be able to find out why on the website, and how to correct it).
TLDR part :
Change balance, make it like 2012, but keep some things like the wpf spread, the shield bash, the roll (tweaking San is willing to do seems appropriate). About balance changes that could be needed :
- buff ranged in the ways I listed in my post (hate me for that, I have an opinion that differs from yours).
1/ reduce a lot throwings price, and more generally, all ranged items's prices, to make it more affordable for new players.
2/ increase the randomization into ranged items (pin point accuracy jarids/longbow that don't kill in one headshot is exactly the opposite of common sense if you ask me). For that, a plain buff of damage would be fine (damages automatically reduce accuracy, that's the objective). Ranged players aren't snipers you know, but throwers, archers, and crossbowmen. They need to KILL, not to fire accurately some ridiculously weak sticks to the ennemy.
3/ Create a second wpf spread for ranged, that is two times (or something around) weaker than the melee spread. For example, a guy gainning like 40 wpf in one ranged spec should get 20 wpf in melee ones, or something around, to enforce fighting instead of kiting, and allowing more huscarl builds (shielder + throwing).
- Buff support melee classes, like pikers and spearmen. Decrease a lot the prices of the 1d weapons, add some of them, make them easier to handle for new players (improve stabbing with those slighly maybe ?) and maybe do kinda the same for 2d weapons (not talking about the high tier ones like the english bill, in fact, there should be some kind of axes used as a 2d weapon). -> If you're too weak, either take a shield or a pike, and stay near of your mates, or take ranged weapons, and skirmish/give support at the cost of your melee ability. To avoid them being overused because OP, buff slighly other weapons directly on their fighting abilities. No need to explain it's to make it having more benefits for old players that know how to play. I'm not that sure about this being needed, but I believe new players also go support.
- To counter the pike and 1d spears buff, buff again cavs. Even thought I really dislike cavalrymen, they're a part of the battlefield, and if everything is getting buffed, they deserve some love too. Horse archery, horse crossbowmen and particularly horse throwers need to be unfucked. The horse ranged should play a support role, definitely, but they should be way less accurate than the foot version of the class (except for horse throwing, which is actually hard, and inaccurate).
- Buff damages of medium tier weapons (thinking of the simple sword and the likes), they're completely useless, even at +3 rank.
- Level 36 should be the new level for characters at 37. This will make OP builds become less OP, simple as that. Some builds are viable only if they are level 37, otherwise, they always lack something (athl, if, or whatever).
- Even if you disagreed with the things I did write, you will however agree on the fact new players should be helped even more : give them the website adress when they log in, and improve the website by adding tips, builds, and listing the characteristics of each build.
Maybe it's naive, but there's always some hope. Of course, if people come and say "but I want to keep fucking everyone with my playstyle without risk/resistance from other classes, I'm not ready to sacrifice/adapt my OP build to try to fill servers again to have some decent fight", this proposal doesn't stand for anything. Oh, and sorry for english.
