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Does horse archery require a nerf?

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Author Topic: Horse archery is too strong  (Read 32427 times)

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Offline San

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #450 on: September 07, 2014, 08:07:55 pm »
0
Yeah, a few lines of code vs either screwing up foot archer ammo or creating new HA only arrows that may not directly solve the problem, since HA can just bide their time for a few minutes and still be just as problematic late in the round.

Offline Molly

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #451 on: September 07, 2014, 08:16:56 pm »
0
...and completely annihilate my Donkey Archer in the process.
Oh, and hitting HX too.

Edit: Less ammo, less chance to score points, less likely valor. Most rounds on EU1 end below the flags any way, with or without HAs. People are just pissed about the constant valor they get.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 08:40:05 pm by Molly »
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Offline San

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #452 on: September 07, 2014, 08:42:24 pm »
0
The reason why I'm leaning towards this change is because HA already has pitiful damage and (compared to foot archers) accuracy, but the complaints are still there. To me, it doesn't seem like a band-aid will really fix much of anything. Donkey is already painfully slow, so I can't imagine it changing that much outside of having a cheap HA option with massive Riding attached. HX and HT are nerfed, yet buffed at the same time since charging shots and shots against cav charging at you will deal great damage again.

They would need to use the fastest/most maneuverable horses to compete. HA vs a light cav can dehorse them quickly at the risk of being overrun. HA vs a heavy cav will endure a more drawn out chase where the heavy cav with good riding may slowly catch up. Since weight doesn't affect cav, this is the exact same ideology for foot archers. A high level HA can still take 9 riding, 3 HA, and a good horse. They'll just have to sacrifice some damage and accuracy to kite more players.

I'm not really against limiting ammo should the above idea not work as great as I had hoped, but I think there are a few issues with it. HA would need their own arrows so they can't loot corpses. Even if ammo was reduced to 10, fully loomed would be ~14, so 28-42 arrows per HA. They can't shoot nonstop the entire round, but I think the average HA won't have ammo issues. They would need their own special imodbits for looms or something.

Offline Jack1

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #453 on: September 07, 2014, 08:44:16 pm »
+3
The problematic thing about HA is that a good one will target any horses who can catch him and ranged. As an arbalister you have 1 shot. If you miss you are screwed. We all know the process. If you are a high rank bow you have a slower draw speed and are usually slower so easier to bump.

Also this should be looked at in a 1v1 perspective if you honestly want to talk balance. ANY class can and will get screwed over by another team guarding their ranged.

Edit for San: I've found a HA using a nomad bow and wearing kuyak(murchad) to be more accurate then me when I was on the doc while he would kill me in less arrows. Same with bullet.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 08:48:27 pm by Jack1 »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #454 on: September 07, 2014, 11:33:48 pm »
+1
San, stop been such a people person and focus on been a balancer who sees HA for a stupidly underpowered class against anything except horses and agi my old friends, the very class/playstyle they SHOULD be strong against.

HA is underpowered against classes that are unable to harm HA at all.

What

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #455 on: September 07, 2014, 11:45:29 pm »
+1
And as we go round again, I will point out that nerfing the bows horsebows would fix this. By nerf I mean remove. Done. Your all welcome.
I don't know enough

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Offline San

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #456 on: September 08, 2014, 12:30:54 am »
0
@Jack1
I think I understand what you mean. Murchad and Bullet are quite good and is high level as well, and I assume the same for most of the HA that cause grief on EU, but I mostly meant exact comparisons of reticule sizes. High level = possible +14% damage, Riding that propels them farther away from the average, and vastly increased accuracy with more wpf and 4-5 HA gets you really close to foot archer performance on horse while keeping that safety.

I think HA are in a decent spot as far as damage is concerned, but I think the playstyle should have pros and cons that others (including HA) can utilize. Higher risk = more reward, low risk = low reward. Unique HA ammo may still be needed, but I think people will still have problems if nothing else is done. I think horse ranged needs to be slowed down in some way to match the disadvantage that foot ranged endures. Riding penalties for the HA skill helps fight off the highest level HA with the greatest efficiency. High level HA would need to choose between a normal PD boost, normal WM boost, or a great power/accuracy boost from HA at the cost of speed/maneuverability. There may be a better implementation, but I think this is simple enough and I hope it can be accepted. Right now, there's no real discussion lol, so it's currently just wishful thinking on my part.

Armor, IF, and Shield already helps avoid damage for infantry. Melee cav would be disadvantaged from afar and gain the advantage as they get closer, and HA would have to be more careful to approach incoming projectiles and less damage while kiting -> easier on melee. Chasing would still be difficult with the speed bonus change, but heavy cav actually has a chance to catch up and light cav can blindside them much more easily. I hope this results in horse ranged being more demanding without neutering it. I'm on the side that thinks that it should just be removed if it's going to get nerfed to that effective level anyways.

Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #457 on: September 08, 2014, 12:58:52 am »
0
Give lances bonus damage to horses.
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #458 on: September 08, 2014, 09:52:45 am »
+4
HA is the new camping on a roof archer, except now they take the roof with them. That passive playstyle needs to be fixed. I don't really care how. Very average/mediocre players that get mid table with anything else are topping the scoreboard and getting valour, its not right

I'd take a bandaid hotfix while you think about how to deal with it, but for now my interest in playing this game is pretty low
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Offline Spaceplayer1

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #459 on: September 08, 2014, 10:08:07 am »
0
Not bothering to read through 31 pages (I read the first page :D), I suggest that Tydeus or whoever does this stuff just make it so that Horse Archery skill is per 9 agility instead of 6. This would make level 30 horse archer builds have 3-4 Horse Archery which would make them more inaccurate.

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Offline Protemus

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #460 on: September 08, 2014, 10:33:57 am »
-2
I'd take a bandaid hotfix while you think about how to deal with it, but for now my interest in playing this game is pretty low

Oh but you see my interest in this mod is constantly rising, because finally I can annoy the fu*k out of melee macro 360° sppining stabs trough the wall ( I'm looking at you Teeth) max mouse sensitivity hashtag yolo 420 blaze it swag get rekt kuyak hero's.

For to long I've been suffering, bullied by your 2handed heroes...now it's time for vengeance, time for you to feel the anguish I felt by being stabbed, cut, smashed, crushed, poked.

And guess what...
(click to show/hide)
                                               
(click to show/hide)
                                                               
(click to show/hide)
                                                                               
(click to show/hide)

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Protemus, You have received a warning for non-relevant posts in ban section also for personal attacks with disgusting insults on the forums. Chill out and enjoy the game. Regards, cRPG Team

Offline Dionysus

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #461 on: September 08, 2014, 10:40:03 am »
+1
I would like to direct an appeal to the United Nations for crimes against humanity conducted by horse archers during a late night session of cRPG on the Official North American cRPG Battle Server.

I joined the server to witness this abomination:
(click to show/hide)
These dickweeds were denying all participating members the right to enjoy the most engaging aspect of the game (the multi-directional combat, for the socially-challenged/ranged in this community) with the pure intent of "killing" the server.

As soon as the server population had dropped to seven, the multipliers ceased and the terrorists (Namo and Zylo) left the server post haste (but only after desecrating my mustard-scented corpse):
(click to show/hide)

If we do nothing, the terrorists will win.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 10:45:45 am by Dionysus »
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #462 on: September 08, 2014, 10:40:27 am »
+1
Oh but you see my interest in this mod is constantly rising, because finally I can annoy the fu*k out of melee macro 360° sppining stabs trough the wall ( I'm looking at you Teeth) max mouse sensitivity hashtag yolo 420 blaze it swag get rekt kuyak hero's.

For to long I've been suffering, bullied by your 2handed heroes...now it's time for vengeance, time for you to feel the anguish I felt by being stabbed, cut, smashed, crushed, poked.

And guess what...
(click to show/hide)
                                               
(click to show/hide)
                                                               
(click to show/hide)
                                                                               
(click to show/hide)

AKA you aren't good enough to hack it in the real game so you try to spoil it for everyone else. I get it
If you have ranged troubles use this:

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Offline Protemus

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #463 on: September 08, 2014, 11:41:47 am »
0
AKA you aren't good enough to hack it in the real game so you try to spoil it for everyone else. I get it

I was thinking about what you said Grumbs, wow you're right, my only purpose is to destroy this mod. Camping enemy spawn so I can kill those poor souls who first time entered cRPG and make them GTX and uninstall the mod.
You can call me cRPG Illuminati, my intentions are to decrease the population until it's unplayable.

You got me there, now everyone knows my secret.
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Protemus, You have received a warning for non-relevant posts in ban section also for personal attacks with disgusting insults on the forums. Chill out and enjoy the game. Regards, cRPG Team

Offline Prinz_Karl

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Re: Horse archery is too strong
« Reply #464 on: September 08, 2014, 12:03:07 pm »
+1
I hope this class gets finally fixed and asshats like this guy ^ will leave the game forever.

It's not just a battle for fixing a class it's also a battle against players who are against the multi-fun aspect of a multi-player game.