Author Topic: Muslims, really?  (Read 16345 times)

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Offline Falka

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2014, 10:58:06 am »
+2
The big majority of Muslims are as peaceful as the majority of mankind.

To be honest I don't know any country in western world with christian roots which today has as fucked up legal system as Saudi Arabia.

It's a shame but so far neither USA nor any other christian country have bombed Saudi Arabia.

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Ofc Europe wasn't any better - a few centuries ago.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2014, 11:08:31 am »
0
YOu're talking about abstract, non-existing* belief system, I'm referring to religion as a whole social phenomena.

*Non-existing cause if the text of holy books is mostly alegorical and shouldn't be read literally, how you can know what precisely religion tells you to do. Again it comes down to made up church's - or its islamic counterpart - teachings.

Except the Quran is supposed to be read literally not allegorically and is fairly self explanatory, as in, it doesn't rely on stories ect to get the point across.

Clearly you have no idea what your talking about and have made assumptions based on limited knowledge so I'll just leave it there.

Offline Tovi

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2014, 11:16:00 am »
+2
Hundreds of children are killed by US drones. Just because they are suspected to be islamist. Is this country really a Democracy respecting the Human Right, or even Life ?
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Offline Falka

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2014, 11:24:50 am »
+1
Except the Quran is supposed to be read literally not allegorically

Quote
The Quran in S. 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly teaches that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. Nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis.

Internet tells me you're wrong.

Btw; "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34)

Maybe it's not a bad idea to convert into muslim...

PS. I don't claim I'm an expert, just the oppostie, a few pages ago I already said that my knowledge about the subject is heavily restricted, but I thought that  Quran refers to The old testament as a a part of legacy of prophets... or whatever. And, as I've read the bible (skipping a few pages here and there cause it's so fucking boring, but still), I'm sure noone in his right mind can claim that old testament should be read literally.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 11:34:59 am by Falka »
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2014, 11:32:47 am »
0
Internet tells me you're wrong.

Btw; "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34)

Maybe it's not a bad idea to convert into muslim...

 :rolleyes:

Well done for Googling one specific, minute part of the Quran. Now go and read the entire thing and then come back.

Offline Falka

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2014, 11:36:10 am »
+1
:rolleyes:

Well done for Googling one specific, minute part of the Quran. Now go and read the entire thing and then come back.

Just answer me one question, will be there "young full-breasted maidens"?  :lol:
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Offline Xant

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2014, 12:50:59 pm »
+1
While you're at it get rid of every other religious fanatic on the planet and wipe 3/4 of the population hm... sounds good
3/4 of the population are not religious fanatics.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline BASNAK

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2014, 01:38:50 pm »
+3
I don't see how banning Islam would suddenly make the world a Utopia. There are a great deal of non-Muslim countries in the world that have done disgusting things without religious motives, such as Rwanda and Cambodia. People will still be fucked up with or without religion.

Many believe in the removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan because they are horrible islamic fundemantalists that can be saved by replacing them with a democratic modernized Afghan people, which is nowhere to be found. The taliban have simply been replaced by the Northern Alliance who are the new Military and Police authorities, whom are well known to resort to boy-pedophilia, stealing, drugs and other crimes. I highly recommend you to watch the Vice documentary "This is what winning looks like" to get a hang of what I'm talking about. So yes the Taliban are bad, but so is the replacement.

And I would really like to hear your methods on how to "ban islam".
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 01:44:35 pm by BASNAK »
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2014, 01:56:11 pm »
+11
I've already had this discussion with Overdriven elsewhere on the forum. Fact is there is no muslim faction or school anywhere on the entire planet that does not follow or addopt some of the (various and often self-contradictory) Haddiths. According to his own definition of what a "real" muslim is, i.e the only document that matters is the Koran, there are vanishingly few real muslims. It's just yet another case of "No True Scotsman", the perfect fallacy to defend retarded religious extremists, pretending they are some sort of abberation as opposed to the logical conclusions of their ideology.

It's like when Sufi's and Hazara's and other small splinter philosophies and tribes are offered up as evidence of Islam's "liberalism", despite being small isolated fragments, often persecuted and loathed by surrounding muslims. Some complete moron even tried to convince me Salafi's of all schools are extremely liberal, which made me guffaw condescendingly. And that's ignoring the most obvious schism, the rivalry and hatred between sunni and shia that continues to define a lot of the politics in muslim majority countries. What the fuck is a "real" muslim anyways, out of all the schisms and tribal groups and schools of jurisprudence and etc..?

No one should give a flying fuck if individuals want to live their lives according to a code created by some desert bedouin leader hundreds of years ago ("inspired" by other semitic religions). Just stay the fuck away from centers of material and governmental power. The problem is it isn't about individual freedom of worship, it's about imposing that creed upon entire groups through societal mechanisms, like government. That's just the way every Abrahamic religion was built from the ground up, as a total life guide. And it doesn't take an "extremist" muslim to hold values completely incompatible with those of the modern "west". So-called moderates and even non-practicing muslims painting every criticism of Islam as "Islamophobia" and racism. Maybe if the vast majority of muslims in the world didn't overwhelmingly favour and demand to live under governments that embrace their fairy tales as guidelines on law and governance. I've lost count of how many "moderates" I've seen decrying secularism as just another covert way of hating on poor martyr opressed muslims. If you have a problem with secular governance, you can go fuck off back to whatever shithole you came from to live under a "proper" government guided by the hand of god.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #99 on: May 17, 2014, 02:09:35 pm »
+2
The big majority of Muslims are as peaceful as the majority of mankind.

Much generalization. Such ignorance. Wow.

So, not peaceful at all then?
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Offline Gnjus

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2014, 02:20:24 pm »
+2
Bloberyn Martell has spoken. Masha'Allah.
Do you honestly think you have any sort of moral authority, Reyiz? Go genocide some more armenians and deny it ever happened, please, and stay in the middle east.
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Offline BASNAK

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #101 on: May 17, 2014, 02:32:20 pm »
+3
Bloberyn Martell has spoken. Masha'Allah.

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #102 on: May 17, 2014, 03:42:13 pm »
0
Religious extremists are extremists. Religious moderates are moderate.


Circular logic : the thread.

Offline Xant

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2014, 03:44:23 pm »
+1
I don't see how banning Islam would suddenly make the world a Utopia. There are a great deal of non-Muslim countries in the world that have done disgusting things without religious motives, such as Rwanda and Cambodia. People will still be fucked up with or without religion.

Many believe in the removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan because they are horrible islamic fundemantalists that can be saved by replacing them with a democratic modernized Afghan people, which is nowhere to be found. The taliban have simply been replaced by the Northern Alliance who are the new Military and Police authorities, whom are well known to resort to boy-pedophilia, stealing, drugs and other crimes. I highly recommend you to watch the Vice documentary "This is what winning looks like" to get a hang of what I'm talking about. So yes the Taliban are bad, but so is the replacement.

And I would really like to hear your methods on how to "ban islam".
Prithee, who has claimed the world would be an utopia if islam was banned? The amount of cruelty would significantly decrease. Not disappear completely obviously
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Muslims, really?
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2014, 06:00:19 pm »
+1
The title should be "Sudanese, really?"

Of which the official state religion is Islam and this sentence was given under Islamic Sharia law.  It's kind of difficult to separate the religion from the state when they are one and the same.