DTV Changes - some infos

[Jona]

Speaking of fixing things... I had an odd case of deja vu earlier today.

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[Uther Pendragon]

Ah, yes, on Nords we currently have 2 Serfonzes spawn and 1 Leiknir.
EU 7 bots block, HRE DTV bots don't block because cmp is a 12 year old shy schoolgirl and won't send his special WSE2 to unofficial servers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E5NhfCL2yI

[justme]

Yeah, i wanted to increase the throwing ammunition and the reload speed of every xbow immensely, but i'm just too much of a noob with the MS right now to actually do that. Throwing and xbow are quite useless on dtv.

@Uther: Any problems with the new waves after Legions? As in, any bot not attacking or only using fists or missing equipment or anything. Too bad you didn't get to the Landsknechts, though, would have been nice to know for them, too.

Instead of lowering the amount of bots (because i freaking love it tbh) i think i'll just scale down the skills of the bots a little bit. And by a little bit i really mean a little bit, anything after the first 6 or 7 waves will still be hard.

maybe add weapon rack?

[Wonkysaurus]

maybe add weapon rack?

Lol.
A weapon rack will do nothing to prevent the veteran players from getting screwed. That's all that's really happening here: more work for less reward.

[Pentecost]

Rather than just lowering the number of bots, have you considered things like allowing cavalry, allowing construction sites, and enabling the shieldwall bonus? The recent changes have done a lot to make DTV interesting to play, so why not continue the trend? If you are really worried that the inclusion of these elements will allow people to cheese the mode, you can always increase the difficulty further if testing proves that they make things too easy.

[Thranduil]

Cough cough any chance on an extra reward for beating tincans?

I hop on the forums and THIS is the first thing I read? The pain! Oh the pain! (Just finished fighting the last round of tin cans.... and we lost).

But hmmm..... all the players' characters left alive are forced to perform a dance script? 

[Fips]

Rather than just lowering the number of bots, have you considered things like allowing cavalry, allowing construction sites, and enabling the shieldwall bonus? The recent changes have done a lot to make DTV interesting to play, so why not continue the trend? If you are really worried that the inclusion of these elements will allow people to cheese the mode, you can always increase the difficulty further if testing proves that they make things too easy.

Shieldwalls are already pretty damn powerful and i don't know if shieldwall would bring indestructible shields back (need to ask cmp first), but yeah, it's something i would consider. Also cavalry, but only on the maps that make them useful (meaning map maker chooses to place entry point bla&bla and then cav can spawn).

Construction sites no, because they wreck the AI too much, it would basically be like a portable fence to hide behind.

@el supreme: most maps will have weapon racks after the hotfix.


Oh, and about the gear limitations considering xp and gold: Definitely something i would like to get in. Everyone above lvl 25 for example who is not using any kind of ranged would get hit by that xp&gold decrease. Shields should have more worth because a good shielder does not need plate to be effective, but being level 30 or higher and then joining with peasant equipment on a plated round of bots needs to go.


PS: Made it to chadz wave on one of the new maps 

[dynamike]

Excited to play the new changes after my trip.

And yes, fucking yes please, allow cav in DTV! Bring an entire class that has so far been shunned into the game mode!

I'll volunteer to make an appropriate map, if you do! 

[Lt_Anders]

They removed Cav cause it would crash DTV at the time. Not sure about now.

[IG_Saint]

These changes do kinda screw over small teams. It used to be that a good 2 man team on a good map with a lot of luck could reach tincans. I don't see that happening any more, now it seems anything under 10 people is just not enough to reach the highest waves.

Personally, I think any team size should be able to make it to tincans as long as they're good enough. So scaling for smaller teams needs to be adjusted, both bot count and reward need to come down a bit imo.

[Torost]

I tried DTV for the first time today. unaware that my lvl 33 main would bring extra bots

It was quite fun, we got far, I lost count after a while, some of the other players said we made it til the last wave.

My main is horsethrower, so alot of points were not that usefull.

I had a dilemma,bring throwing spears (16) or throwing knives(32).
The early waves and midwaves it was effective. But latewaves was so heavily armored that only headshots made the slightest dent.
I would also run out of ammo halfway into the battle, picking up random weapons from bots.
That worked somewhat buggy, if I found some botthrowing ammo, next round I would spawn with a slot or two less ammo than usuall.
Same if I forgot to throw any meleewep i picked up.

A very simple tactic seemed to work every time, shieldwall on all entrances, ranged picking off and staggering the bot buildup.
And a small 2nd line that took care of bots that came thru the wall.
Some times the shieldwall broke, and mayhem ensued. But a few good players usually managed to save the day.

Some random thoughts on making DTV even more fun.

Why is there several rounds, where people can die off, and have to wait it out? Would not one round per wave be enough? More fun for all.

The bots seems abit stupid, smarter bots would make it more fun imo. Not sure if that is possible. MAybe tell ranged bots to stay away from melee until they run out of ammo or get engaged in melee.

Bots should have more shieldbreaker weapons, mauls and axes.

Most waves should have some cav charging with good bump before the infantry attacks. Too knock down the shieldwall and go straight for the Viscount if they get thru.

DTV was fun, will play again.

/dtv-newbie-rant

[MountedRhader]

While I see your intention as to increase the team welfare by forcing higher level players to help Fips, I am saddened by the result.

DTV has been dead lately and people are saying that the huge amount of bots and time it takes to kill them dont justify the reward, and I havent got past the Tihr round yet, most of us usually die on the overpowered and massive ninja waves. I can get a few ninjas by aiming for their heads but there are too many and they are too powerful.

And if you're increasing difficulty, increase the reward right along with it. So far you/they made it harder with less reward, we don't want dtv to die! The Teutonic Knights alone cant populate it at all times forever!

The patch has actually worsened team welfare. Less people are playing and most just ignore dtv, the shallow tidal pool where new players can level is drying up.

[jergu]

PS: Made it to chadz wave on one of the new maps 

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Was fun (also ban unclebob for hax!)

[NJ_Legion_Icedtea]

Good work! Have to say this map is my new favourite

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[Fips]

These changes do kinda screw over small teams. It used to be that a good 2 man team on a good map with a lot of luck could reach tincans. I don't see that happening any more, now it seems anything under 10 people is just not enough to reach the highest waves.

Personally, I think any team size should be able to make it to tincans as long as they're good enough. So scaling for smaller teams needs to be adjusted, both bot count and reward need to come down a bit imo.

I know that it might be hard but i didn't had the chance to test that myself yet. When i played on my personal server i came to the Legion round (Damn those cav and throwers =D) and i had to fight 5-7 more beats each wave, which seemed pretty okay to me. And i'm really just a mediocre player. 5-10 players should indeed have a way harder time than a full server because those 5 extra bots per wave are more powerful there, but then again, the increase of bots is nothing that would make a really good small team get crushed so easily i think. I'd have to see that for myself before i judge anything (Or if the feedback here seems to tend towards it being OP). From what i've seen now, a full team with too many leechers got hit the hardest, which is exactly what i wanted. As proven 3 times already while i was playing dtv since patch, a good team can still get very far and get good xp&gold meanwhile. Means, shieldwall, coordinated backpedalling, good ballista and ranged support and whatnot. Of course that always depends on the map. More open maps are now way harder, but i'm not gonna remove them either because everyone wanted them and i think they are just right in between the small maps. Allowing cav on those maps might make them a lot easier, because you could temporarily lure a lot of bots away from the v and other players.

@Paladin: No. XP & Gold of dtv has always been WAY too high. And you can still get the same amount of xp, simply by being good and helping your team as much as possible. I've made 420k yesterday after i retired right before rohirrim, so you can get about 700k per map if you go all the way to the tincans. Which is insane considering how much you get on average on siege or battle in the same time.