Increase the difficulty requirement on Medium/Heavy tier armours. POLL ADDED!

[Gravoth_iii]

I still dont see why this is needed, removing diversity for no reason. But sure, just do it, not going to change anything anyways.

[no_rules_just_play]

On an unrelated note you seem very invested on being able to equip plate with no Str though, i thought you said it wasn't viable so why do you care so much? For someone who says it's total waste of agility to equip heavy armour you seem to be taking this suggestion quite personally xD

Why? Well it's very simple: I use the transitional heraldic armour for the same reason I use a heavy round shield and that sexy motherfucking heraldic barbed warhorse. My gear has only one single goal and thst is looking sexy as fuck. If you take my sex appeal from me I'll come to your house and rape your mother, sister, dog and goldfish.

[Gravoth_iii]

Well i guess thats NA then, we dont have too many longsword users here, 2h seems to be a dying breed, lots of polearms though! Armor diversity is good right now on the eu servers, i guess nerfing plate will be good for me as an agiwhore though, less glancing on people. Only problem is that its kind of an indirect buff to archers, who are the only reason i sometimes pick up plate.

[Panos_]

What you fail to see is that you will still have an option.

If you want to use a plate armour, invest into more strength and lose mobility, if you want back your mobility invest in agility but lose survavibility.

Fair and square.

[Gravoth_iii]

Ah i guess, but changing build to equip heavier armor would be stupid since using heavy armor is pretty bad anyways. I guess ill just trade away the plate for some loomed peasant gear or just get whatevers the heaviest i can use, probably only losing 5 armour, too bad the varangopoulus armor is so sexy, the only good part about it..

[no_rules_just_play]

In which case you'd have no problem with investing the necessary attributes to be able to wear it again whatever the change, so there's no problem.

Yes I would, but I would be fucking mad because I would be forced to  change my build to an average fucking balanced build. That's also the reason why I didn't want the STR nerf at all, before the STR nerf I was special while now most people are already faster than me (my polearms slow me down a ton)

[no_rules_just_play]

As much as i like ya No_Rules and would rather not harm your build and ability to wear sexy armour (sexiness important), awlpike-using heraldic trans wearers are the epitome of leaping around wearing essentially plate, cos that offers some beast armour, especially if loomed and/or combined with decent gloves. If surrounded you can just spin and stab whilst they glance glance glance. Exactly the type of build that gets the best of both worlds; speed, damage, glancing.

Seriously, I probably will be selling my ashwood pike soon because with armour, a heavy round shield and an aswhood I am too slow to run and too slow to lower my shield and attack. And if I finally manage to attack, my ps is too low to actually get through anything that isn't low armour.

Also, just for clarification:

armour = sex appeal
build = hipster

[kinngrimm]

I mentioned it before, get the formular for movement penalties fixed in a way that, the more weight someone carries around, the slower he becomes from his movement. By that agi builds may still be able to carry higher tear armors, but they would have to live with the shortcomings , that their movement speed slows down like fuck. Perhaps also the intertia ratio, so that higher weight doesnt let you get away too quickly from a spot. Those are the primary adavantages of high ath, forget about the weapon speed(which i would make more dependable on weapon length), the movement is key.

For me, who considers light kuyak a heavy armour (imo light: 0-20, medium 21-40, heavy 41-51, plate 52+), kinngrimm is an agi build with heavy armour. (also any modification would probably screw him over since it would bring the kuyak to over 12 str.
I would be all up for this change.

do it anyways if it would then balance out armor crutchers as you think i would be one 
When you are throwing around numbers, medium could end at 45  and the first armor to be named inname  "Plate" would be "Heraldic Tabard over Mail and Plate".

Also Medium Armor in your sense with minimum 20, can include overall gear with less then 10kilos, therefor no WPF penalty, that i think should but be only doable with light armors, so only making it about armor value would be insuficient from my pov.

@Tydeus
I agree on the need for rescaling also keeping in mind that we got a lot of new stuff included since the last major rescale. In that sense i agree also with the OP, that the highest tear armors, would need additional strength requirement(independently from my suggestion to rework the movement speed penalties with more weight influences)
The other thing sounds like a new mechanic with not to be forseen other implications when included and possibly lots of other things which needed to be reworked for it. I'd say, keep it simple.

[Leshma]

Armour can't be separated in even groups based on rating value, like Moncho did. That's because, difference between 50 and 60 armour rating means you can take almost double amount of hits because high AR mitigate cut damage values a lot. Difference between 20 and 30 AR is almost non-existing from my experience.

OPs idea is actually the mildest nerf AGI builds can receive. Solution "eye for an eye" would be buff to IF skill (5 HP per skill point invested) and removal of free HP gain from STR skill. That way, builds with no IF would become just as useless like low or no WM builds are now. It is quite harsh nerf, as you can imagine.

Another way to balance things (AGI and balanced builds are currently superior to STR builds, but only in battle game mode) is to change purpose of Iron Flesh, instead of giving HP it should give AR on top total AR given by armour. That way. the likes of Butan will become slow swinging but nearly invincible juggernauts (highest current AR is 79 body armour plus 13 or 14 from IF equals almost game breaking 92-93 body armour or in other words, will make plate armour historically accurate).

[San]

HP from strength is too hardcoded to do anything.

Personally, I don't think 15 strength characters should have access to above 60-65 armour. I think looms just throws that idea out the window even before considering the strength requirements, forcing balance to be centered around 56-60 as the "average." +5 armour from body equipment makes sense, but not for gloves. I think it should so something else that also has some use to people, thus lowering the average armour by 5.

Giving IF some utility in some way also makes sense, but I think that HP from IF also can't really be changed. Not certain on that, though. I tried making a thread in the past arguing how IF is weak and will only be worse once the wpf update occurs, but many disagreed.


@Leshma

Looking at the numbers if IF gave +1 armour instead of 2Hp.
7PS, 160wpf, 40c
79 armour
4.5-10.5 damage

30 strength, 10 IF =  85HP, ~12 hits

34p, 7.8-14.7, ~8 hits

Now 89 armour, 65 HP
40c deals 3-7.9,  still ~12 hits
34p deals 5.7 - 11.8,  ~8 hits

Nothing changes on paper for decent hits, but in practice I imagine that you would need to time your hits extremely well so as not to glance, especially since melee hits don't stagger any more. That sounds fine to me. 1h cut would be lol, but that's not much of an issue considering it sucks against plate anyways. I think it could work along with the glove change (lowering the armour examples to 74/84), but it's definitely something that would be controversial if brought up for serious discussion. Many more scenarios would have to be brought up and it would have to be argued how it's better than what we already have.

(click to show/hide)

Something gimmicky like IF affecting punch damage would be hilarious, though

[Grumbs]

Could IF affect your carry weight a bit, so rather than not letting agi players use plate its just heavier than for someone who's stronger with IF

Just a random idea

[Rhaelys]

I get the feeling that people believe that AGI builds don't get IF.

[Panos_]

2 out of 3 players want to increase the difficulty requirements on medium heavy tier armours.

The community has spoken

[Kafein]

2 out of 3 players want to increase the difficulty requirements on medium heavy tier armours.

The community has spoken

#democracy

[Moncho]

Wait, the community is listened to in order to change the mod?