Increase the difficulty requirement on Medium/Heavy tier armours. POLL ADDED!

[Switchtense]

Yes it is viable. Get a ACS and on horseback you will fuck shit up. Get dismounted and it no longer is viable.

With morningstar exactly one. With 1h weapons about 3 or 4.

And my main is a polearm, yes. And no, I do not need "a few" stabs to kill a heavy horse.
A light or medium one yes. But for a heavy horse, especially elephants I need more than 4 stabs. Last time I tried I needed 7 for an elephant. 5 after hitting it when it was charging towards me full speed.
With a +3 Awlpike that is. With my Long Spear I do not even have to try to kill one, cause it is impossible if the rider actually tries to get away.


Okay, so if I am willing to pay tons of money I also should be able to wear Plate with my Arbalest character, and my archer, and my light cav character, and literally every character that does not have enough strength.

[San]

To me, milanese and up feels like elite armour of sorts. I like getting a sense of an opponent's build based on their gear and playstyle.

A more lenient version of what I had before:
Gothic plate with bevor: 24
Milanese: 21
15 diff->18
14 diff->16
13 diff->14

Helmet, glove, and boot difficulties would remain untouched.

In my mind, I think that it would be cool to have some exclusive armour that cater to strength builds. The loom change would increase the max armor above what we currently have. I do understand that others may think that it's just adding on more restrictions, though. Not very passionate about this issue.

In the end, I care far more about the loom values than difficulties because there are inherent penalties built in. My feelings would be similar if weapons' difficulties maxed at 15 for 2h/poles and 9 for 1h. To me that would also be odd, but that wouldn't break the game as well.

Heavy equipment on a horse mitigates weight penalties, but Oberyn and Gurni's suggestions on the matter would help. Maybe extra weight above a certain threshold could decrease maneuver/speed with an emphasis on maneuver, and increase charge. Perhaps extremely low weight values should give a boost to speed/maneuver just for fun as well, since it's normally crazy to do so anyways.

[Kalp]

Helmet, glove, and boot difficulties would remain untouched.

hm.....eeee....nope

[no_rules_just_play]

A more lenient version of what I had before:
Gothic plate with bevor: 24
Milanese: 21
15 diff->18
14 diff->16
13 diff->14

Yep, let's hurt cav even more. It's not like the main reason why people play this game is because they want to be able to pick their own build, with tons of possible variations. You literally won't see any tincans on heavy horses anymore, unless they wanna have almost no wm at lvl 35.

I am polearmer and cav, and seriously there isn't anything more unneeded than this. Have you any idea how easy it is to stop a horse now? Have you any idea how weak the horses are now and how easily you get picked off by HA. Have you any idea how little plate armour on horseback means when you get couched and when all ranged just shoots your weak ass ('heavy') horse anyway?

[San]

I think you should read your own posts aloud to yourself.

Anyways, 80+% of my playtime the last few months have been on heavy cav (STF btw) and it's the easiest time yet.

[Switchtense]

Yep, let's hurt cav even more. It's not like the main reason why people play this game is because they want to be able to pick their own build, with tons of possible variations. You literally won't see any tincans on heavy horses anymore, unless they wanna have almost no wm at lvl 35.

With all respect, stop talking such bullshit please.

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Both viable on foot and on horseback. With 5 or 6 Weapon Master. That gives you enough weapon proficiency for lances as well as one handed weapons.

Alternatively you can replace athletics with Iron Flesh or Shield.

You just gotta prioritise whether you want to be viable both on foot and on horseback, or focus on one of those.


I am polearmer and cav, and seriously there isn't anything more unneeded than this. Have you any idea how easy it is to stop a horse now? Have you any idea how weak the horses are now and how easily you get picked off by HA. Have you any idea how little plate armour on horseback means when you get couched and when all ranged just shoots your weak ass ('heavy') horse anyway?

If your horse constantly gets reared, then you are doing something seriously wrong.
If you constantly get shot off your horse, you are doing something seriously wrong.
If you constantly get couched, you are doing something seriously wrong.
If your horse constantly gets killed by enemy ranged, you are doing something seriously wrong.

In short: The way you play cav dooms you to die all the time.

Play more carefully, do not charge in like a headless chicken and you will notice that cav is not as nerfed as you think it is.

[no_rules_just_play]

Yep, let's hurt cav even more. It's not like the main reason why people play this game is because they want to be able to pick their own build, with tons of possible variations. You literally won't see any tincans on heavy horses anymore, unless they wanna have almost no wm at lvl 35.

With all respect, stop talking such bullshit please.

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Both viable on foot and on horseback. With 5 or 6 Weapon Master. That gives you enough weapon proficiency for lances as well as one handed weapons.

Alternatively you can replace athletics with Iron Flesh or Shield.

You just gotta prioritise whether you want to be viable both on foot and on horseback, or focus on one of those.


I am polearmer and cav, and seriously there isn't anything more unneeded than this. Have you any idea how easy it is to stop a horse now? Have you any idea how weak the horses are now and how easily you get picked off by HA. Have you any idea how little plate armour on horseback means when you get couched and when all ranged just shoots your weak ass ('heavy') horse anyway?

If your horse constantly gets reared, then you are doing something seriously wrong.
If you constantly get shot off your horse, you are doing something seriously wrong.
If you constantly get couched, you are doing something seriously wrong.
If your horse constantly gets killed by enemy ranged, you are doing something seriously wrong.

In short: The way you play cav dooms you to die all the time.

Play more carefully, do not charge in like a headless chicken and you will notice that cav is not as nerfed as you think it is.

As if this formatting is any better...

* Stop showing me lvl 35 builds, I know that if you play 4 years that you might be able to get a decent build. That will make this game so much more fun for new players!

* Yes your cav build is both viable on foot and on horseback, but you have to give up your ironflesh AND shieldskill for that..

* Why do you so badly want me to choose only one of the both? I went fucking hybrid for a reason, unlike all you other tryhards crying when your extra powerstrike isn't enough to kill peasants yet.

* I am saying I play as fucking piker and it's super easy to stop horses
* I'm not saying I get shot of my horse, I'm saying my horse gets shot away from under me. There is NOTHING you can do about a HA following you accross the map. Do you even fucking play cav?
* I'm not saying I'm getting couched, I'm saying that your idea of plate being OP is just totally wrong
* Because when my horse gets killed by enemy ranged it's my fault right? Oh right, I should hide somewhere in a corner of the map! Maybe you are forgetting what 'ranged' means? They have these sharp sticks they can shoot at you, and if they hit you it kinda hurts because heavy horses are totally worthless these days. If ranged can choose between shooting infantery or your horse, you can be sure it's your horse they aim for.

* Do you really think you can turn my words around to make me look like a total noob who knows nothing about his class/build? Oh right, because it's like you have been playing this game for suuuch a long time, especially battle right?

[San]

Be aware that what I said about difficulties is part of increasing the total armor of heavy body armor by 3 (along with the weight). For body armor, that counts for both body and legs. For a cav player at 15 strength, they would have access to higher armor for a cheaper price at the cost of being even slower on foot.

[Kafein]

Be aware that what I said about difficulties is part of increasing the total armor of heavy body armor by 3 (along with the weight). For body armor, that counts for both body and legs. For a cav player at 15 strength, they would have access to higher armor for a cheaper price at the cost of being even slower on foot.

Not taking armor weight into account for cavalry is already a major problem in Warband combat. I don't see the point of pushing it even further. Cav is the class that benefits the most from armor, they should be encouraged to get less of it, not more.

[Switchtense]

As if this formatting is any better...

Fine, will go back to quoting then if it is the same anyway.

* Stop showing me lvl 35 builds, I know that if you play 4 years that you might be able to get a decent build. That will make this game so much more fun for new players!
You complained that one cannot get a decent heavy cav build with a good amount of weapon master. I have proven you wrong by posting that build. Stop complaining when somebody replies to your crying.

* Yes your cav build is both viable on foot and on horseback, but you have to give up your ironflesh AND shieldskill for that..
Yes, because with BOTH you would literally have every single skill there is, apart from ranged. What the fuck is your problem? You want lots of riding. You want lots of athletics, you want lots of power strike, you want lots of iron flesh, you want lots of shield, you want lots of weapon master. Go level up to 40 then if you want to max out every skill there is! How fucking overpowered do you want to be?!

* Why do you so badly want me to choose only one of the both? I went fucking hybrid for a reason, unlike all you other tryhards crying when your extra powerstrike isn't enough to kill peasants yet.
I have already told you, there is a level 35 build that is perfectly viable as a cav/inf hybrid. Are you even reading my posts? Yes, build variations for a cav/inf hybrid are limited, but that is the case with every hybrid there is.

* I am saying I play as fucking piker and it's super easy to stop horses
Yes, and your point is? I play with a Long Spear and it is super easy to rear horses. If you are riding there is a super simple solution. Stay away from people with (long) pokey weapons.

* I'm not saying I get shot of my horse, I'm saying my horse gets shot away from under me. There is NOTHING you can do about a HA following you accross the map. Do you even fucking play cav?
As I have mentioned, yes I do play cav. In fact more than any other class recently.
Another simple solution: Stay away from enemy HA. If there is one following you, just ride to your team, they will help you, because they wanna kill that HA as well.

* I'm not saying I'm getting couched, I'm saying that your idea of plate being OP is just totally wrong
If somebody charges you full speed with a Great Lance, maybe even a loomed one, then of course you take a fuckton of damage. Speed bonus + 47 pierce, you do the math. (Quick advice: People already complain about 36 pierce Awlpikes doing an incredible amount of damage)

* Because when my horse gets killed by enemy ranged it's my fault right? Oh right, I should hide somewhere in a corner of the map! Maybe you are forgetting what 'ranged' means? They have these sharp sticks they can shoot at you, and if they hit you it kinda hurts because heavy horses are totally worthless these days. If ranged can choose between shooting infantery or your horse, you can be sure it's your horse they aim for.
Well, if Heavy Horses are useless, then why are you using them?
And there is a nice solution for this as well: When ranged is shooting you, ride away from them. With your speed the impact of the arrows will have less force, thus do less damage. Speed bonus being reduced immensely.

* Do you really think you can turn my words around to make me look like a total noob who knows nothing about his class/build? Oh right, because it's like you have been playing this game for suuuch a long time, especially battle right?
Damn you got me. I have been playing for only a year, and only a few months on battle.
The only flaw in that argument is that whenever I play level 30 cav I am getting decent scores, even when I get dismounted.
So, me being a right noob, getting good scores should prove you wrong, shouldn't it?

Just stop complaining about shit when there is nothing to complain about.

Be aware that what I said about difficulties is part of increasing the total armor of heavy body armor by 3 (along with the weight). For body armor, that counts for both body and legs. For a cav player at 15 strength, they would have access to higher armor for a cheaper price at the cost of being even slower on foot.

If anything it is a fucking BUFF for you.

No idea how you cannot understand that your complaints make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[San]

@Kafein
I can't really explain it properly when I talk about bits and pieces of a post that needs to be read in its entirety, since I'll have to point out each thing that was mentioned before that I didn't say at that time. 

Saracen Elite Armor at +3 would have similar stats to the old +3 churburg with different weight, but there would be more pressing choices on what gloves to choose. It may not affect cav as much, but the wpf impact would still be there if they use plated gloves. Light armor would be more alluring because of less weight, medium armor will still be around the same with a larger penalty to wpf for heavy gloves, and heavy armor would really only be able to get more armor with heavier gloves as well.

@Switchsense, I'm not really sure if we're on the same page. Complaints? Buff?

[Switchtense]

No rules is complaining that if the heavy armour requirements are increased that there will be only one level 30 build allowing someone to wear plate and ride a heavy horse at the same time.
But that build is viable, even though it lacks the ability to be able to properly fight on foot.

However, if someone was to choose that build, and wear heavy armour, it would definitely be a buff. Gear weight does not matter on horseback, so the only thing thing they would get is more armour.

[Panos_]

No rules is one of those spoiled brats who want everything.

He wants to be good while mounted, wear plate, use a shield while dismounted AND still be faster than your average footman due to much more athletics   

No rules, you keep repeating that an increase on the body armour requirements will kill heavy cav, but the truth is you don`t want that, because then you will have to sacrifiece something, either that be athletics or wm or IF to invest in more STR so you can use top tier armour.

Thats why agility was/is/will be OP compared to STR, because it offers a lot more gameplay variety with almost no penalties, while on the other hand STR based build are good for a couple of things only.

Now no rules, you can one hit people because of your great lance, and in case you get dismounted you can be a viable shielder, and thats bullshit.

You can either be good at one of the two OR, average at both.

[Switchtense]

No rules is one of those spoiled brats who want everything.

He wants to be good while mounted, wear plate, use a shield while dismounted AND still be faster than your average footman due to much more athletics   

No rules, you keep repeating that an increase on the body armour requirements will kill heavy cav, but the truth is you don`t want that, because then you will have to sacrifiece something, either that be athletics or wm or IF to invest in more STR so you can use top tier armour.

Thats why agility was/is/will be OP compared to STR, because it offers a lot more gameplay variety with almost no penalties, while on the other hand STR based build are good for a couple of things only.

Now no rules, you can one hit people because of your great lance, and in case you get dismounted you can be a viable shielder, and thats bullshit.

You can either be good at one of the two OR, average at both.

That is basically what I have been trying to say. I guess I am just talking too much not cutting to the chase Would +1 if I could.

[Rebelyell]

Well high lvl are problem not game

tha 3-5 lvsl meake difrence

Lvl 31 opens gate to new better bulids, and it is only 1 lvl.


On the end i still think that skill plays first role in game, yet you still argue around litle shit like that.