How to nerf archery, without destroying it.

[Joker86]

That's a bit simplistic. Even if the goal of the game mode becomes flag control or something else, it won't change the fact that to get to that objective you will have to kill people, as well as to prevent the other team to control it. In other words, changing the gamemode will not remove the need to damage and kill some enemy players.

Right, but it becomes way less important, that's why I wrote negligible.

Even if we leave out any balance discussion, I think we can gree that the biggest problem of rangem combat is the amount of ranged players. And I don't think a nerf would be a suitable means to lower the motivation to play an archer. In theory, yes, I agree, making something worse lowers its attractivity. But cRPG reality has proved us differently.

[Thomek]

Aaaand back to reality..

What measures do we have?  (We don't have much beyond buffs/nerfs/changes to stats at this point)

Buffing archer melee (Actually it is just buffing archers.) -Tried, doesn't work.

IMO we have to make the class as lame to play, as the lameness it imposes on others.  (For Archers and Xbow: Make them weaker aka Nerfs ffs)

The same can be said about all classes, but also in the positive sense:

Make classes fun to play, that creates fun for others.

Only then will we see a game that is most enjoyable for most. A simple Kantian ethic..

Imo, if you want to kill people in this game without dealing with manual melee combat, you should be a freakin master at what you do.  Nerf ranged weapons to oblivion but increase headshot damage, accuracy and speed i.ex. Nerfing helmets could be done, would reward everyone that has enough skill to go for the head, melee and ranged too.

IMO Shielder should be weaker than 2h/pole, as you don't have to block.
There should not be an easy choice to just grab the most expensive 2h/pole and armor and go to town. There should be real dilemmas which there are not.
Cav should truly be high risk/high reward. Now it has the lowest risk.
Ranged is incredibly lame to die from. Should be equally lame to play.

All of this could and can be done by item stat adjustments.

anyway.. I guess you all know my positions on all of this by now.. I'm also a bit wasted so sorry to digress..

[Tzar]

Just remove the pierce dmg on bodkins arrows all rdy. That´s what started the whole range fucktard fest in the first place, and made everyone a Jambi cause you dont need to relay on doing headshot or precise shots, just spam spam spam....

[Adamar]

Buffing archer melee (Actually it is just buffing archers.) -Tried, doesn't work.

When?

[Tzar]

When?

0 slot Well decent 1h´s, lets your spam with 2 sets of bodkin arrows while being able to fend for yourself with a good 1h.

Offcourse in your case your screwed either way, since well... you know 

[Adamar]

I know that untill the weight nerf gets reversed and archers can fight again, such measures are meaningless. The result speaks for itself.

[Thomek]

Drop your bow and arrows, like good xbow players do. Whats the problem?

I drop my throwing if I'm in for a though melee, many shielders drop their shield..

[Adamar]

Drop your bow and arrows, like good xbow players do. Whats the problem?

Losing my class? You've read it before, when the enemy comes for you it's likely you'll lose the area where you dropped your gear, once more of them come. That can't be a serious suggestion.

[Tzar]

I know that untill the weight nerf gets reversed and archers can fight again, such measures are meaningless. The result speaks for itself.

Asking to be able to kite like you used too, makes you look like a noob...

What archers where able to do, when they could kite was op like hell....

Adapt an use the excellent 1h´s like everyone else..

Also there are alot of good archers that does excellent with the 0 slot 1h´s Its not the rest of us fault that u suck at melee

[Thomek]

Losing my class? You've read it before, when the enemy comes for you it's likely you'll lose the area where you dropped your gear, once more of them come. That can't be a serious suggestion.

Dave does it, Fried does it, Blackbow does it/did it, Bagge does it.. and so it goes... If you want to be PURE archer with no melee wpf, pay the price!

[Adamar]

Dave does it, Fried does it, Blackbow does it/did it, Bagge does it.. and so it goes... If you want to be PURE archer with no melee wpf, pay the price!

Actually I spammed blackbow dead quite recently despite his longsword and never saw him drop anything. What he does is spawn with no bow on ocasion, and archers aren't supposed to do stuff like that. And crossbows don't count ffs! They actually have something of a melee build. And I do have wpf, again, since apparently you didn't read, mobility is the problem. I don't see the logic in paying a price for being nerfed. Supposedly balance doesn't work like that.

Asking to be able to kite like you used too, makes you look like a noob...

What archers where able to do, when they could kite was op like hell....

Adapt an use the excellent 1h´s like everyone else..

Also there are alot of good archers that does excellent with the 0 slot 1h´s Its not the rest of us fault that u suck at melee

I used to kite? Did I? Then what the hell was I doing with a mace and scale armor? A build I had to drop because that fucking stupid weight nerf made sure I couldn't use it properly anymore? Why on earth would people with your builds need archers to be weaker at melee?

[Paul]

A simple Kantian ethic..
...
IMO Shielder should be weaker than 2h/pole, as you don't have to block. nerf shield
There should not be an easy choice to just grab the most expensive 2h/pole and armor and go to town. There should be real dilemmas which there are not. nerf heavy 2h/pole
Cav should truly be high risk/high reward. Now it has the lowest risk. nerf cav
Ranged is incredibly lame to die from. Should be equally lame to play. nerf ranged

I can live with your "nerf everything but my class" rants but dragging Kant into this is pushing it. Claiming that only shieldless melee is fun for everyone and thus is the only class that has a right to exist seems to be more A.H. than Kant.

[Dalhi]

You can think of possible 1000 nerfs to ranged but it will not fix the problems that we encounter, it's just badly designed.

[Ronin]

IMO we have to make the class as lame to play, as the lameness it imposes on others.  (For Archers and Xbow: Make them weaker aka Nerfs ffs)

Make classes fun to play, that creates fun for others.

I agree, drop your katana.

[Thomek]

I can live with your "nerf everything but my class" rants but dragging Kant into this is pushing it. Claiming that only shieldless melee is fun for everyone and thus is the only class that has a right to exist seems to be more A.H. than Kant.

And I hoped no one would draw the lines...lol 

But on a serious note.. This is actually how I see it, although I'm fully aware that this is not something that will happen! The "Classes" that we have should give rewards according to the effort, skill and brains involved in playing them.. Or we will always see this unbalance once the skill level hardens and good players actually start playing and abusing their classes power.