How to nerf archery, without destroying it.

[XyNox]

probably because more and more peoples ignore yours posts

Oh the contrary, there are more and more melee emos who drown themselves in their tears even before I post. I dont actually have to do anything for that to happen. Oh wait a minute, I think you are one of those guys 

[Leshma]

Where did I say that I want to make archers be able to kite again? I just don't like the way their speed was nerfed.

Buff archer hybrids, remove that silly speed nerf, raise armor archers can use without sacrificing wpf, give every archer synergy bonus in melee category and nerf the shit out of mounted ranged. After you're done, give us another free respec. That way almost everyone will spec to archery/melee hybrids, gameplay will consist of shooting, then a bit of fighting. We will eradicate other ranged species (xbows/throwers) and there will be less whine on forums. The best will win, because we'll be on equal ground.

You see, by giving me ability to have enough wpf in every melee category (trihybrid), you done something right. I don't cry about shieldless melee anymore, because I can pla poleamrs/twohander/swashbuckler at will. Do the same with ranged hybrids and results will be the same. Pure builds are for my old friends.

[Kafein]

Buff archer hybrids, remove that silly speed nerf, raise armor archers can use without sacrificing wpf, give every archer synergy bonus in melee category and nerf the shit out of mounted ranged. After you're done, give us another free respec. That way almost everyone will spec to archery/melee hybrids, gameplay will consist of shooting, then a bit of fighting. We will eradicate other ranged species (xbows/throwers) and there will be less whine on forums. The best will win, because we'll be on equal ground.

You see, by giving me ability to have enough wpf in every melee category (trihybrid), you done something right. I don't cry about shieldless melee anymore, because I can pla poleamrs/twohander/swashbuckler at will. Do the same with ranged hybrids and results will be the same. Pure builds are for my old friends.

I don't agree. I wouldn't play a ranged hybrid because I have plenty of other activities that I personally consider more fun than playing ranged in cRPG.

[Leshma]

Archery is generally boring. But if you spice it up with occasional duel, it can be fun. Shooting from sniper aka xbow is boring any way you put it. Throwing is fun but it's like showing middle finger to melee guy. Just when he expects a proper fight you throw crap at him.

[Tomas]

+1 but go even lower on the ammo count.  12 MW Bodkins per quiver should be max imo. 14 MW Barbeds, 16 MW Tartars and 18 MW Arrows

Reduce MW Steel Bolts to 8 whilst you are at it and MW Bolts to 12.

Also remove ammo looting for all ranged inc throwers. 

That will really make ranged have to melee at the end of rounds (or in the middle of them to conserve ammo)

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Also remove ammo looting for all ranged inc throwers. 

Go kill yourself

[Templar_Steevee]

Archery is generally boring. But if you spice it up with occasional duel, it can be fun. Shooting from sniper aka xbow is boring any way you put it. Throwing is fun but it's like showing middle finger to melee guy. Just when he expects a proper fight you throw crap at him.

Some ppl like me just likes pew pew, because IMO this game is best archery simulator, if you got better and more realistic tell me that
 

[Leshma]

Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[Hirlok]

Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

...you wish... Archery in Skyrim is unrealistic BS, I even begged on Nexus for a mod that would make archery mechanics in Skyrim more like c-rpg. ;-)

Lead, drop, hold time - nothing is realistic, most is just straight shots, then suddenly targets are "out of range" and can't be hit at all... hmmmmpf.
Have to agree with Steevee - so far M&B comes closest to real archery (but one could easily imagine better - unfortunately most devs are more inclined to cater for the needs of the sword wielders and heroes...). 

[Templar_Steevee]

Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

let arrows in c-rpg to make dropshots and i'll make HS like this one, or maybe better ones :D

Anyway, dmg would be really small due to arrows speed, but shooting over walls to some targets could be awesome :D

[Rumblood]

let arrows in c-rpg to make dropshots and i'll make HS like this one, or maybe better ones

Anyway, dmg would be really small due to arrows speed, but shooting over walls to some targets could be awesome

We have had that in the past, with missile speed and I think maybe a gravity tweak. Not sure how it happened, but for one very brief patch I could drop arrows over a rooftop and hit the xbows trying to reload on the other side. Also helped shooting over your teammates. I got used to it, but most people screeched so loudly it only lasted a day or two at most. I liked it.

[Templar_Steevee]

double xp is on, and on EU1 i noticed that... there are not so many archers. Still lots of x-bows, but amount of archers were ok IMO. Most times i died because of infantry or cav, then x-bows and very few fimes I get shot to pieces by enemies archer.

Someone can say that i were killing and wounding lots of pll. Dave with same lvl and his x-bow have on most maps more kills than i have (sometimes almost twice).

[Paul]

We have had that in the past, with missile speed and I think maybe a gravity tweak. Not sure how it happened, but for one very brief patch I could drop arrows over a rooftop and hit the xbows trying to reload on the other side. Also helped shooting over your teammates. I got used to it, but most people screeched so loudly it only lasted a day or two at most. I liked it.

There was no gravity patch. There had been a higher air friction parameter in the past but that has been reverted. The reason why one can't use indirect fire with most bows is that there aren't enough pathpoints (pre)calculated to allow long flight times. The upwards looking angle is limited anyway so the horizontal velocity component is too big to allow hitting closer targets.

So to enable lobbing arrows cmp would have to do 2 things:
1) Increase the maximum upward looking angle to 90 degree.
2) Increase maximum pathpoints number or fix this problem with a workaround.

Iirc the second thing is the problem because it's very hardcoded. Maybe that will be tackled when cmp has more time. Maybe not.

[Prpavi]

Paul, can you answer me one questions about xbows pls. Is it possible from a techincal standpoint to add a requirement for xbows (like PD for bows) or do you guys in the balancing team feel it's not needed, also what do you feel about increasing the requirement for Arbalest from 15 to 18.

thanks.

[Paul]

Would be cmp stuff so it won't happen anytime soon. I like 15 str for arba, dunno what the others think. Personally I'd like to have something that slows down the reload process instead if just matching the str requirement and needing 10 more str for full speed.
Maybe like :
reload_speed = base_reload_speed * ( 0.5 + 0.05 *min(strength - difficulty, 10))

But that would be cmp stuff as well.