Poll

Do you agree with those changes?

Yes
89 (62.7%)
No
34 (23.9%)
Yes, but... (insert you opinion)
19 (13.4%)

Total Members Voted: 142

Author Topic: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.  (Read 16112 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline XyNox

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 801
  • Infamy: 219
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Quincy Clan
  • Game nicks: Quincy_XyNox
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #135 on: December 15, 2013, 06:34:11 pm »
+1
probably because more and more peoples ignore yours posts

Oh the contrary, there are more and more melee emos who drown themselves in their tears even before I post. I dont actually have to do anything for that to happen. Oh wait a minute, I think you are one of those guys  :lol:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Leshma

  • Kickstarter Addict
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2082
  • Infamy: 977
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • VOTE 2024
    • View Profile
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #136 on: December 15, 2013, 07:31:10 pm »
0
Where did I say that I want to make archers be able to kite again? I just don't like the way their speed was nerfed.

Buff archer hybrids, remove that silly speed nerf, raise armor archers can use without sacrificing wpf, give every archer synergy bonus in melee category and nerf the shit out of mounted ranged. After you're done, give us another free respec. That way almost everyone will spec to archery/melee hybrids, gameplay will consist of shooting, then a bit of fighting. We will eradicate other ranged species (xbows/throwers) and there will be less whine on forums. The best will win, because we'll be on equal ground.

You see, by giving me ability to have enough wpf in every melee category (trihybrid), you done something right. I don't cry about shieldless melee anymore, because I can pla poleamrs/twohander/swashbuckler at will. Do the same with ranged hybrids and results will be the same. Pure builds are for my old friends.

Offline Kafein

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2203
  • Infamy: 808
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #137 on: December 15, 2013, 07:42:13 pm »
+1
Buff archer hybrids, remove that silly speed nerf, raise armor archers can use without sacrificing wpf, give every archer synergy bonus in melee category and nerf the shit out of mounted ranged. After you're done, give us another free respec. That way almost everyone will spec to archery/melee hybrids, gameplay will consist of shooting, then a bit of fighting. We will eradicate other ranged species (xbows/throwers) and there will be less whine on forums. The best will win, because we'll be on equal ground.

You see, by giving me ability to have enough wpf in every melee category (trihybrid), you done something right. I don't cry about shieldless melee anymore, because I can pla poleamrs/twohander/swashbuckler at will. Do the same with ranged hybrids and results will be the same. Pure builds are for my old friends.

I don't agree. I wouldn't play a ranged hybrid because I have plenty of other activities that I personally consider more fun than playing ranged in cRPG.

Offline Leshma

  • Kickstarter Addict
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 922
  • Infamy: 602
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • VOTE 2024
    • View Profile
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #138 on: December 15, 2013, 07:53:49 pm »
+1
Archery is generally boring. But if you spice it up with occasional duel, it can be fun. Shooting from sniper aka xbow is boring any way you put it. Throwing is fun but it's like showing middle finger to melee guy. Just when he expects a proper fight you throw crap at him.

Offline Tomas

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 718
  • Infamy: 217
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
    • Fallen Brigade Website
  • Faction: Fallen Brigade
  • Game nicks: Fallen_Tomas
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #139 on: December 15, 2013, 11:04:54 pm »
-4
+1 but go even lower on the ammo count.  12 MW Bodkins per quiver should be max imo. 14 MW Barbeds, 16 MW Tartars and 18 MW Arrows

Reduce MW Steel Bolts to 8 whilst you are at it and MW Bolts to 12.

Also remove ammo looting for all ranged inc throwers. 

That will really make ranged have to melee at the end of rounds (or in the middle of them to conserve ammo)

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1272
  • Infamy: 971
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Faction: Frisian Church of Mork The Goat God
  • Game nicks: Zlisch
  • IRC nick: IRC nick: Tears
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #140 on: December 15, 2013, 11:22:12 pm »
+1
Also remove ammo looting for all ranged inc throwers. 
Go kill yourself
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Templar_Steevee

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 613
  • Infamy: 128
  • cRPG Player
  • Pew-pew for victory!!!
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Templar
  • Game nicks: Templar_Steevee, Templar_catchArabbit, Gangtroll
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #141 on: December 16, 2013, 02:01:50 pm »
+2
Archery is generally boring. But if you spice it up with occasional duel, it can be fun. Shooting from sniper aka xbow is boring any way you put it. Throwing is fun but it's like showing middle finger to melee guy. Just when he expects a proper fight you throw crap at him.

Some ppl like me just likes pew pew, because IMO this game is best archery simulator, if you got better and more realistic tell me that :)
 
Archer forever :D

Offline Leshma

  • Kickstarter Addict
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 640
  • Infamy: 23
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • VOTE 2024
    • View Profile
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #142 on: December 16, 2013, 02:12:11 pm »
+2
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim


Offline Hirlok

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 624
  • Infamy: 122
  • cRPG Player Sir White Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • A friendly archer decorating your ass with arrows
    • View Profile
    • Gab.ai. Freedom of Speech matters.
  • Faction: Always Take The Shot
  • Game nicks: None that you need to know of - except Hirlok the Hermit.
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #143 on: December 16, 2013, 02:18:42 pm »
+1
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

...you wish... Archery in Skyrim is unrealistic BS, I even begged on Nexus for a mod that would make archery mechanics in Skyrim more like c-rpg. ;-)

Lead, drop, hold time - nothing is realistic, most is just straight shots, then suddenly targets are "out of range" and can't be hit at all... hmmmmpf.
Have to agree with Steevee - so far M&B comes closest to real archery (but one could easily imagine better - unfortunately most devs are more inclined to cater for the needs of the sword wielders and heroes...). 
Hermit Status report : feeling a little social. Threatening melee my old friends with a comeback. Greasing the string of his old longbow. Carving certain names into the tips of his arrows...

Offline Templar_Steevee

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 613
  • Infamy: 128
  • cRPG Player
  • Pew-pew for victory!!!
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Templar
  • Game nicks: Templar_Steevee, Templar_catchArabbit, Gangtroll
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #144 on: December 16, 2013, 02:22:44 pm »
+1
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim



let arrows in c-rpg to make dropshots and i'll make HS like this one, or maybe better ones :D

Anyway, dmg would be really small due to arrows speed, but shooting over walls to some targets could be awesome :D
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 02:37:07 pm by Templar_Steevee »
Archer forever :D

Offline Rumblood

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1199
  • Infamy: 420
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: GrannPappy
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #145 on: December 18, 2013, 12:02:51 am »
+1
let arrows in c-rpg to make dropshots and i'll make HS like this one, or maybe better ones :D

Anyway, dmg would be really small due to arrows speed, but shooting over walls to some targets could be awesome :D

We have had that in the past, with missile speed and I think maybe a gravity tweak. Not sure how it happened, but for one very brief patch I could drop arrows over a rooftop and hit the xbows trying to reload on the other side. Also helped shooting over your teammates. I got used to it, but most people screeched so loudly it only lasted a day or two at most. I liked it.
"I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday" – Abraham Lincoln

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Templar_Steevee

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 613
  • Infamy: 128
  • cRPG Player
  • Pew-pew for victory!!!
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Templar
  • Game nicks: Templar_Steevee, Templar_catchArabbit, Gangtroll
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #146 on: December 18, 2013, 09:00:51 am »
0
double xp is on, and on EU1 i noticed that... there are not so many archers. Still lots of x-bows, but amount of archers were ok IMO. Most times i died because of infantry or cav, then x-bows and very few fimes I get shot to pieces by enemies archer.

Someone can say that i were killing and wounding lots of pll. Dave with same lvl and his x-bow have on most maps more kills than i have (sometimes almost twice).
Archer forever :D

Offline Paul

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1879
  • Infamy: 442
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • ball bounce boss
    • View Profile
  • IRC nick: Urist
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #147 on: December 18, 2013, 10:04:15 am »
0
We have had that in the past, with missile speed and I think maybe a gravity tweak. Not sure how it happened, but for one very brief patch I could drop arrows over a rooftop and hit the xbows trying to reload on the other side. Also helped shooting over your teammates. I got used to it, but most people screeched so loudly it only lasted a day or two at most. I liked it.

There was no gravity patch. There had been a higher air friction parameter in the past but that has been reverted. The reason why one can't use indirect fire with most bows is that there aren't enough pathpoints (pre)calculated to allow long flight times. The upwards looking angle is limited anyway so the horizontal velocity component is too big to allow hitting closer targets.

So to enable lobbing arrows cmp would have to do 2 things:
1) Increase the maximum upward looking angle to 90 degree.
2) Increase maximum pathpoints number or fix this problem with a workaround.

Iirc the second thing is the problem because it's very hardcoded. Maybe that will be tackled when cmp has more time. Maybe not.

Offline Prpavi

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1525
  • Infamy: 402
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • 私 わ 変態 です
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Prpavi, Prpafeee
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #148 on: December 18, 2013, 11:28:18 am »
0
Paul, can you answer me one questions about xbows pls. Is it possible from a techincal standpoint to add a requirement for xbows (like PD for bows) or do you guys in the balancing team feel it's not needed, also what do you feel about increasing the requirement for Arbalest from 15 to 18.

thanks.
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Paul

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1879
  • Infamy: 442
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • ball bounce boss
    • View Profile
  • IRC nick: Urist
Re: How to nerf archery, without destroying it.
« Reply #149 on: December 18, 2013, 11:43:58 am »
0
Would be cmp stuff so it won't happen anytime soon. I like 15 str for arba, dunno what the others think. Personally I'd like to have something that slows down the reload process instead if just matching the str requirement and needing 10 more str for full speed.
Maybe like :
reload_speed = base_reload_speed * ( 0.5 + 0.05 *min(strength - difficulty, 10))

But that would be cmp stuff as well.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 11:54:41 am by Paul »