WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[Tydeus]

Did you ever try to shoot a long range shot in cRPG or ever played range? Just wondering since most whining about range doesn't seem to ever have tried it themselves.

I actually tested that very thing recently. Damage falloff from distance is quite minor at the moment. For archery specifically, I tested using bodkin arrows and a MW Long Bow and MW Horn Bow.
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Each distance increase you see in that image resulted in roughly a 5% raw damage loss. Considering the points in the longest distance trial, there really isn't much reason(if any) for archers to complain about damage reduction from distance. It might be more difficult to land the shots, but the further from combat you are, the safer you are. You can't both have your cake and eat it.

[juv95hrn]

Did you find it too easy to hit long range targets and moving targets? Cause I sure don't when I play my archer alt.

[Thomek]

Should it be easy?

[Hoppster]

Should it be easy?

No it should not!! i know it makes life hard for new archers, but the high skill archers that exist would be alot more annoying if it was any easier

[juv95hrn]

Should it be easy?

Should it be harder like some 2-h:ers suggest?

[Rebelyell]

Should it be harder like some 2-h:ers suggest?

Eu 1 now is get a shot or leave, arbalest almost 1 shot everything, longbow 2 shot kill me and there is more and more players that do not miss my ass.

[Grumbs]

Yes.

So you said Yes to balancing ranged accuracy stats since they get more WPF, can you tell us more about that?

Loads of guys in heavy armour using xbows with good melee skills

[Kafein]

So choosing a low damage / high missile speed ranged weapon is bad because it gets easier to hit enemies, which however comes at ( wait for it ) the cost of damage ? Hence, lowering the missile speed would be a good thing because it would make ranged more skill based ?

By that logic, cant we just lower the speed rating of all 2h weapons by 20 so 2h gameplay would become A LOOOT more skillbased instead of just spam spam spam ? 

The retard is great in this post. Let me show why :

So choosing a low damage / high missile speed ranged weapon is bad because it gets easier to hit enemies, which however comes at ( wait for it ) the cost of damage ? Hence, lowering the missile speed would be a good thing because it would make ranged more skill based ?

Lower missile speed increases the prevalence of leading which represents much of the difficulty of aiming. This has absolutely nothing do to with damage. Nothing. Zero. Nope. Nada.

By that logic, cant we just lower the speed rating of all 2h weapons by 20 so 2h gameplay would become A LOOOT more skillbased instead of just spam spam spam ? 

This is so stupid I shouldn't even comment, but it looks like you want a reaction so here it goes : the missile speed of ranged weapon is not an equivalent of the speed rating of a melee weapon. Past a certain low threshold, a melee weapon is so slow one cannot reasonably expect any enemy to fail a block against it in a fair fight. Past a certain high threshold, the weapon is so fast blocking it is literally beyond human reflexes. Currently, all melee weapons are within those boundaries.

Which lets me go on about a parallel between ranged and melee weapons when it comes to human reaction time. Have you ever wondered whether it is possible to dodge an arrow based on a reaction starting at the time you hear the arrow releasing sound ? Unless you are further away than the distance where the same archer would need to be lucky to hit you if you stood still because his COF is too large, it won't work. But, you might say, nobody dodges based on the arrow sound. Yes, most people dodge based on the drawing animation, which is completely unreliable as it varies in length between different archers and it's very easy for the same archer to vary the drawing time while keeping just about the same accuracy.

Now, you might say "get a shield lol" which would better apply to Haitians in their struggle with deforestation and increasing soil erosion than to a cRPG melee player struggling with ranged but anyway, it seems that catchphrase is still popular among people that think it makes the slightest bit of sense. But lo and behold, a shield used based on a reaction to the firing sound cannot work either, the projectile being simply too fast.

[Rebelyell]

The retard is great in this post. Let me show why :

Lower missile speed increases the prevalence of leading which represents much of the difficulty of aiming. This has absolutely nothing do to with damage. Nothing. Zero. Nope. Nada.

This is so stupid I shouldn't even comment, but it looks like you want a reaction so here it goes : the missile speed of ranged weapon is not an equivalent of the speed rating of a melee weapon. Past a certain low threshold, a melee weapon is so slow one cannot reasonably expect any enemy to fail a block against it in a fair fight. Past a certain high threshold, the weapon is so fast blocking it is literally beyond human reflexes. Currently, all melee weapons are within those boundaries.

Which lets me go on about a parallel between ranged and melee weapons when it comes to human reaction time. Have you ever wondered whether it is possible to dodge an arrow based on a reaction starting at the time you hear the arrow releasing sound ? Unless you are further away than the distance where the same archer would need to be lucky to hit you if you stood still because his COF is too large, it won't work. But, you might say, nobody dodges based on the arrow sound. Yes, most people dodge based on the drawing animation, which is completely unreliable as it varies in length between different archers and it's very easy for the same archer to vary the drawing time while keeping just about the same accuracy.

Now, you might say "get a shield lol" which would better apply to Haitians in their struggle with deforestation and increasing soil erosion than to a cRPG melee player struggling with ranged but anyway, it seems that catchphrase is still popular among people that think it makes the slightest bit of sense. But lo and behold, a shield used based on a reaction to the firing sound cannot work either, the projectile being simply too fast.

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[Butan]

Why keep damage falloff for ranged if its even harder after-patch to lead a target with a strong bow ?

[Okkam]

The retard is great in this post. Let me show why :

Lower missile speed increases the prevalence of leading which represents much of the difficulty of aiming. This has absolutely nothing do to with damage. Nothing. Zero. Nope. Nada.

This is so stupid I shouldn't even comment, but it looks like you want a reaction so here it goes : the missile speed of ranged weapon is not an equivalent of the speed rating of a melee weapon. Past a certain low threshold, a melee weapon is so slow one cannot reasonably expect any enemy to fail a block against it in a fair fight. Past a certain high threshold, the weapon is so fast blocking it is literally beyond human reflexes. Currently, all melee weapons are within those boundaries.

Which lets me go on about a parallel between ranged and melee weapons when it comes to human reaction time. Have you ever wondered whether it is possible to dodge an arrow based on a reaction starting at the time you hear the arrow releasing sound ? Unless you are further away than the distance where the same archer would need to be lucky to hit you if you stood still because his COF is too large, it won't work. But, you might say, nobody dodges based on the arrow sound. Yes, most people dodge based on the drawing animation, which is completely unreliable as it varies in length between different archers and it's very easy for the same archer to vary the drawing time while keeping just about the same accuracy.

Now, you might say "get a shield lol" which would better apply to Haitians in their struggle with deforestation and increasing soil erosion than to a cRPG melee player struggling with ranged but anyway, it seems that catchphrase is still popular among people that think it makes the slightest bit of sense. But lo and behold, a shield used based on a reaction to the firing sound cannot work either, the projectile being simply too fast.

All french players have natural weakness to ranged, or there are some exceptions?

[Angellore]

Loads of guys in heavy armour using xbows with good melee skills

It's not about the patch at all. Simply, weight don't affect crossbow accuracy. Do the test - buy full plate armor in shop, and compare arbalest accuracy with same build, but below 10 kg armor. Accuracy is the same, and was always the same. Some people were using heavier armors with crossbow long time now, other just didn't know about it. I guess people were so busy compaining about archers, they forgot there is a crossbowman class. Or maybe they didn't complain, because everyone can take a crossbow and be pretty good at it?
The problem with increased amount of crossbowers is, people got free respec, so they could make high level easy to play class just like that, without any effort. Armor they wear now has nothing to do with the patch itself.

[Prpavi]

Is this true about armor having no impact on the accuracy? Certainly doesn't sound right 

Also Tydeus will stabs remain as they are or will they be modified.

thx

[Phew]

Is this true about armor having no impact on the accuracy? Certainly doesn't sound right 

Also Tydeus will stabs remain as they are or will they be modified.

thx

Considering that reticule size only varies ~10 pixels between 1wpf in xbow and 200wpf, it would be pretty difficult to resolve reticule size differences due to armor weight wpf penalty.

All four (1h, 2h, pole, hoplite) stabs are very good, and pretty equally balanced with each other. Also, weapon stats have been pretty well balanced to account for the fact that stab is a powerful attack (see crappy sideswing damage on Espada, Esotec, War Spear, etc). If they started messing with stab animations again, they would have to rebalance all 4 animations against each other AND rebalance weapon stats to less heavily weigh stab.

Just accept that stabs are powerful for everyone now (as they were historically), and down block a lot? I don't see the problem.

[XyNox]

(click to show/hide)

The retard is great in this post. Let me show why :

Lower missile speed increases the prevalence of leading which represents much of the difficulty of aiming. This has absolutely nothing do to with damage. Nothing. Zero. Nope. Nada.

This is so stupid I shouldn't even comment, but it looks like you want a reaction so here it goes : the missile speed of ranged weapon is not an equivalent of the speed rating of a melee weapon. Past a certain low threshold, a melee weapon is so slow one cannot reasonably expect any enemy to fail a block against it in a fair fight. Past a certain high threshold, the weapon is so fast blocking it is literally beyond human reflexes. Currently, all melee weapons are within those boundaries.

Which lets me go on about a parallel between ranged and melee weapons when it comes to human reaction time. Have you ever wondered whether it is possible to dodge an arrow based on a reaction starting at the time you hear the arrow releasing sound ? Unless you are further away than the distance where the same archer would need to be lucky to hit you if you stood still because his COF is too large, it won't work. But, you might say, nobody dodges based on the arrow sound. Yes, most people dodge based on the drawing animation, which is completely unreliable as it varies in length between different archers and it's very easy for the same archer to vary the drawing time while keeping just about the same accuracy.

Now, you might say "get a shield lol" which would better apply to Haitians in their struggle with deforestation and increasing soil erosion than to a cRPG melee player struggling with ranged but anyway, it seems that catchphrase is still popular among people that think it makes the slightest bit of sense. But lo and behold, a shield used based on a reaction to the firing sound cannot work either, the projectile being simply too fast.

For a second, I was considering to put a sarcasm hint in my post but then I thought, nobody would actually misunderstand that my post is nothing more than a sarcastic retort. It was aimed to be retarded Kafein ... I merely took your words and switched "archery" with "2h" 

By the way, when we spoke ingame that other day, ( that day when you wrote "full sprint, zigzag and I still get headshot" while I was actually clearly seeing you running in a straight line because i was 2 meters behind you, remember ? ) when I asked you why you never wear armor, you said you just dont care about ranged hits anymore. I want to ask you Kafein:

As long as I can remember, for several years straight now, you come up with the most extraordinary reasons and ideas about why and how ranged needs nerfs. Day in, day out. On top of that, let us take a look at your sig:

(click to show/hide)

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...

I am not sure how to say this Kafein and I am sure you will excuse me if I may be mistaken but it somehow gives people the impression that you in fact do care about ranged hits, a lot.

I am aware that this is the internet and people are pretty fast when it comes to accusing complete foreigners of all kinds of misdeeds, especially in this community in my humble opinion I am afraid to say. Still, and again I beg your pardon if I judge the situation inadequately, given your eagerness when it comes to raising your opinion regarding ranged ballance in this game and also taking into account your stunning endurance with which you pursue those affairs, I am almost temped to think that you are in fact obsessed with the subject of getting ranged nerfed at all costs.

I am well aware that expressing such outright ludicrous assumptions, especially on the internet as stated above, may yield me an argumentum ad hominem rather then the self-reflexive and rational retort I am looking for. Yet I finally have to ask, dont you think you are overreacting a bit when it comes to ranged Kafein ? If you take stock of yourself and really ask yourself that question, will you be able to answer it with "no" in all honesty? If I can give you the advise without it being taken as choleric from your side,  take a break from the game - it sure helped me to enjoy it more. 

Now if you would excuse me, I will enjoy my new MW espada before my melee capabilities get nerfed again