Author Topic: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)  (Read 55459 times)

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Offline Tydeus

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WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« on: November 09, 2013, 01:33:37 pm »
+94
*Major News Update.* Check Edit #4 *Major News Update.
We’ve decided to finally address the STR v AGI & WM issues and have decided on a rework to wpp totals, wpp costs and WM effectiveness formulas. Since this will affect everyone, we've decided to give everyone access to the exact formula and to give players the opportunity to ask some questions and give responses to the proposed change. Some questions I have asked are; Should we let the community make the final decision, what exactly should the new wpf formula look like and most importantly, how to handle reimbursements?

So what does the change look like? For starters, free wpf from leveling has been removed. Second, the new base wpp (weapon proficiency point) allows for 20 wpf (weapon proficiency) in a single weapon type. Next, each point in Agility will now grant you varying amounts of wpp. Finally, 6 WM was chosen as the amount one would need to remain mostly unaffected by this change; 5 or fewer points result in lower wpf values, 7 or greater result in higher wpf values.

Sounds great, but what does it look like? Well, here:
(click to show/hide)

If you want the formulas, to be able to play with numbers to get a better idea or to perhaps update preexisting calculators, here’s that too:
(click to show/hide)

For most hybrids, there are two possibilities for how this can affect you. If you have an even 1:1 split, you will find yourself having less wpf in both, up until higher WM values. If you have something like a 2:1 split, you will go largely unaffected.

If you don't read the forums much or you haven't been around very long, maybe you’re wondering why we’re even doing this. Well, there are two reasons and they’ve been complained about quite consistently for years now. First, is that strength synergizes with so many different things that it’s objectively the better of the two attributes. Second, WM and wpf scaling leaves much to be desired. A dedicated melee build simply doesn’t gain much from WM past 3 or so points. Strength stackers shouldn’t be able to completely forsake WM and Agility without worry. Stacking anything, regardless of what it is, should always come at the cost of something else that is equally important.

Now with that out of the way, we can get to the part where we want the community’s input. Of course there is the obvious “what do you think of the change?” but what we’re more interested in, is what you believe the minimal reimbursement would be for implementing this. We believe what would be most appropriate is reimbursing something like 6 Strength attributes and however many skill points that amounts to(This is currently the plan). It’s clear that full respects aren’t desired on our end (chadz says no), so what could you get by with, without an excessive amount of QQ?  :P

All responses and critiques appreciated(Aside from grammatical ones). Thanks for reading.

Edit 1: I guess I forgot to state this, but your wpf will be reset.

Edit 2: For clarification on the current(could change) reimbursement... The patch will come out and people will log in to begin playing. They will then notice they have 6 more attributes that they can spend and 6 less str than what they had before. They will also notice that any skill points they had that would have required higher values of str than what they currently(the moment after the patch goes live) have, were also refunded. So 18str and 6 powerstrike and 6 iron flesh gets turned into 12 str, 4 powerstrike, 4 iron flesh and you're credited the points a fully respecced character.

Edit 3: WPF per PT requirement reduced from 13 to 11. Putting wpf into any melee type will grant bonus wpf to the other melee proficiencies.



Update to reimbursements
Edit 4: Major update to reimbursements. Had a bit of a chat with chadz where I mentioned some concerns I had about the current reimbursements. Before you jump to conclusions or start planning your new builds, please remember to test all future builds with a stf character first. chadz just confirmed we will in fact be doing full character respecs for everyone. We would really like to avoid knee jerk reactions so again, please make sure you're really testing a build out with a STF before you decide to stick with a specific build for your characters. Furthermore, keep in mind that all item stats are subject to change, don't create a build around one specific weapon that you think is/will be OP, it could very well end up getting changed in the future and you will not be given another free respec.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 04:13:47 pm by Tydeus »
chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character

Offline Fips

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 01:35:23 pm »
+3
Pras!

Offline Osiris

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 01:38:04 pm »
0
so my 18-18 build with 120 wpf in 1h 120 wpf in pole is boned? :D "If you have an even 1:1 split, you will find yourself having less wpf in both, up until higher WM values" or is 6 high enough to not have to respec?
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 01:40:18 pm »
+1
so my 18-18 build with 120 wpf in 1h 120 wpf in pole is boned? :D
What's your WM, I'll tell you what you'd have. 6WM will have you at ~113 in each.

We believe what would be most appropriate is reimbursing something like 6 Strength attributes and however many skill points that amounts to(This is currently the plan).
No one should have to respec, unless maybe they have 42str or something.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 01:44:50 pm by Tydeus »
chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character

Offline Osiris

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 01:42:34 pm »
0
6 at the moment. change is good and due im just trying to work out where ill be :D
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Offline _GTX_

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 01:43:57 pm »
+11
Looks and sounds great. It will surely deal with the excessive amount of str builds that we have around right now, which gives the combat a very slow and sloppy feel on the servers. I would be fine with a reimbursement of 6 attributes, it should be more than enough to deal with the changes of this new formula, unless you have a crazy build of some sorts ofc. I hope this works and creates more diverse melee builds. 1+ from me.
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Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2013, 01:47:46 pm »
+2
in the end it kinda fucks debuffs builds like 21/15, 24/15 or even more STR focused builds. My main is 24/15 atm, I dont have any WM, planned to get it next levelup.
So with how many wpf points will I end up? I finally planned to not retire anymore and go for a higher level but this kinda crosses my plans.

Offline Erzengel

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2013, 01:47:50 pm »
+6
GIVE FREE RESPEC NAOW!

Hm, I guess 6 attribute points should be quite fair.

Offline pingpong

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2013, 01:49:01 pm »
+28
So what about AGI abusers? You just practically destroyed maulers, are you going to nerf the shit out of 3/36 rondel abusers?

Theyre the real cancer with their OPness.


Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 01:50:49 pm »
+5
So what about AGI abusers? You just practically destroyed maulers, are you going to nerf the shit out of 3/36 rondel abusers?

Theyre the real cancer with their OPness.

No buff them, I just made a new alt for rondel daggering. Stop nerfing everything I'm playing

Offline Dalhi

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2013, 01:52:49 pm »
+4
So what about AGI abusers? You just practically destroyed maulers, are you going to nerf the shit out of 3/36 rondel abusers?

Theyre the real cancer with their OPness.

I beleive that with new 1 handed stab animation some of the weapons needs some balancing (read lowering the damage on stabs f.e. side sword/espada esvalona and rondel of course... btw who the fuck added that item?  :rolleyes:).
Changes seem good, well most likely not for pure strength builds  :P.
To be honest I am still waiting for new xp/gold system  :oops: but well that will most likely happen in M: BG  :D

Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 01:53:25 pm »
0
Sounds good to me.
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Offline pingpong

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 01:53:58 pm »
+8
No buff them, I just made a new alt for rondel daggering. Stop nerfing everything I'm playing
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2013, 01:54:40 pm »
+13
So what about AGI abusers? You just practically destroyed maulers, are you going to nerf the shit out of 3/36 rondel abusers?

Theyre the real cancer with their OPness.
They've been nerfed, just need an item patch.
chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character

Offline ARN_

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 02:02:22 pm »
+10
Hmm sounds good, but when you gonna fix the most important thing?  This: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/eu4-53357/
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