WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[Tydeus]

Or strat would have to be something besides all plate users?

If that is the goal, there are several other ways of reaching those results, many of which do not even have implications outside of strategus.

[San]

Or strat would have to be something besides all plate users?

No, they'd just deny those melee who can't wear plate.

[SayAttack]

Does this affect the debate on the decision to change or is it just a talk?

[Grumbs]

Edit: Armor makes a huge difference in this game, I would actually argue that of all items and character stats, armor value(or effective HP) makes a larger difference in a fight overall, than anything else .

Don't really agree with that. Depends on your playstyle, and if you don't move fast enough you severely limit yourself. People don't dominate in Milanese plate on EU1 at least. Strat might be different, but thats to do with the style of fighting you get, less ranged, respawing and limited mobility in the fights

Armour can get a bit strong when people aren't affected by the encumbrance much or for people who move slow even in light-medium armour. Otherwise I feel the weight just isn't worth it for the heavier armours

[Molly]

No, they'd just deny those melee who can't wear plate.

That is already happening for quite some time. I have been told twice lately that my 15/24 build is useless in Strat. Since then I don't even bother checking the battle list any more.

Last big Strat battle I fought in was only cuz Crymoar was so nice to take me in, telling me to "run up down the back walls and call/fight single ladders". I don't mind doing that at all. That's what Strat battles are about, right? Actually having proper orders and good teamplay. I got my orders and fulfilled them quite successfully.
Still, I am too squishy for Strat cuz the overall mindset is: Strength above all... that's why I welcome this change a lot. Maybe now I can get in a few Strat battles cuz everyone is closer to the agi side like I am...

I know I am not the best player, far from it, but I bring something to the table that a lot of players don't have: discipline. I listen and I follow cuz like I said: that is the whole point of those battles in my eyes.

/rant

Sorry... Just saying...

[Phew]

If that is the goal, there are several other ways of reaching those results, many of which do not even have implications outside of strategus.

I loathe the thought that cRPG balance decisions are affected by Strategus. cRPG is about customizing your character, and obviously gear is a critical element to that. You don't even wear your character's gear in Strat, so I think it's a shame that so many people choose their cRPG build based on efficacy in Strat plate antics. Agility builds shouldn't be able to wear plate in cRPG; if that screws up Strat, then like Tydeus said, Strat can be changed.

[polkafranzi]

buff heavy lance.

[Leshma]

Don't really agree with that. Depends on your playstyle, and if you don't move fast enough you severely limit yourself. People don't dominate in Milanese plate on EU1 at least. Strat might be different, but thats to do with the style of fighting you get, less ranged, respawing and limited mobility in the fights

Armour can get a bit strong when people aren't affected by the encumbrance much or for people who move slow even in light-medium armour. Otherwise I feel the weight just isn't worth it for the heavier armours

Strategus battle is nothing like EU1 battle server, it's more like siege on open plains with organized teams (believe it or not we do play siege on open plains on EU2 siege server).

AGI and ATH stats are almost useless in Strategus (for close combat situations) thanks to abundance of anti-agility weapons such as pikes.

[Royans]

  Not going to read to those 27 pages, and just learn about this futur patch.

  But if i understood well, your going to bring everyone to nearly the same build at the end, isn't it ?

  No more str pure build since it wont be competitive anymore, no more diversity, this is what c-rpg is, or what the point of playing this mod.
I dont even get why ppl are complaining about str build lol.

  Seriously, i know ur trying to do something nice about this mod. But most of us are players that play this mod for years and dont want change like this or we would not be there anymore isnt it ? And if we  keep playing, its because this mod is fine like it is, your just on the way to remove more and more people with every of your currents updates..

I won't be affected by this kind of update, tho, i do think thats gonna be shitty to see everyone playing the same build after few weeks, and losing more and more players than we already did.

Maybe im wrong and did not understand well. Just giving my opinion and fears about what ur doing atm...

[kinngrimm]

Have any of you guys actually thought that maybe this would set a STR constraint on how little you can have if you want a viable strat character? Scaling str requirements up to 18 might not be so bad for battle, but scaling them to 21 would have serious limitations on how viable 12 - 15 str characters can be.

yes, increasing the need for armies buying more different armors, thereby having a more deversified army and perhaps getting some different tactics. Would that tehn really accure, no idear, but the thought exactly was to get a bit pressure onto the equiping of armies.

Edit: Armor makes a huge difference in this game, I would actually argue that of all items and character stats, armor value(or effective HP) makes a larger difference in a fight overall, than anything else .

If you want to keep it mostly as it is, then at least the weigth values to armor res to movement speed ratio needs to be thought over, that + the 2h/pole effect on movement speed.

(click to show/hide)

I loathe the thought that cRPG balance decisions are affected by Strategus. cRPG is about customizing your character, and obviously gear is a critical element to that. You don't even wear your character's gear in Strat, so I think it's a shame that so many people choose their cRPG build based on efficacy in Strat plate antics. Agility builds shouldn't be able to wear plate in cRPG; if that screws up Strat, then like Tydeus said, Strat can be changed.

what you may or may not know, cRPG was always seen as the first step, but the goal was strategus.
So cRPG customization is a sub module to Strategus, if you would go with the intention it was created.
That at least is what i recall from several statements of chadz over the years.

[Fartface]

Id say scale heavy armours even higher, would add more diversity and fun IMO.

[San]

I think agi is pretty good in strat. You just have to play it similar to a cav, just can't stay on the front lines for too long but instead dart in and out and be strategic about your positioning.

Raising armor difficulty does make sense, but increasing it to 21 and the like will really only affect strategus applications. There aren't many agi builds in very heavy armor and my limit in battle with a 9ath build is medium-heavy armour around 17 weight. Agi build in heavy armor is quite good imo, but it's all tradeoffs for attack, defense, and speed: Poor/mediocre attack, good defense, good speed (which indirectly affects attack/defense). Strength build in plate is great attack, great defense, and poor speed.

If armour difficulty gets raised, I think strat should be tweaked a little bit so agi builds would get recruited.

[Leshma]

To be perfectly honest here, I dislike strategus. It doesn't suit my playstyle and I have low fps while playing those massive battles. Also, strategic part doesn't interest me the slightest bit. But I've started to play as mercenary because of epic XP.

Somehow, I have a feeling that most strategus mercs feel the same way as I do. If public battle/siege server gave us the same XP as strat battles I doubt many mercenaries would play strat at all. Always felt like a victim of strategus, wish it was just another part of the game not the main event. Because of strat many players have suffered and that ain't right (remember Bars voulge).

For those who don't know this fact, during solid strategus battle that last for about one hour you can get almost one million XP or possibly even more. That's the main reason why so many players apply for those battles, it's certainly not because Strategus is interesting game mode... On EU side, I know that Grey/Druzhina are very active in strategus, also Wolves. On NA side I see Bird clan playing strat regularly. Other major clan haven't shown interest in strategus for awhile and I hope that developers of this mod (or what's left of them) will take that into account next time they'll be making changes.

[xxkaliboyx]

Can someone be so kind and "Cliff Note" the 27 pages, thanks in advance

v/r
TheAmerican

[Prpavi]

True, make Strat XP equall to Battle or Siege and you'll have a handfull of players playing it. Balancing cRPG for Strat = sadface.jpg