Author Topic: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)  (Read 49418 times)

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Offline NuberT

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #105 on: November 09, 2013, 07:41:40 pm »
+4
Tydeus is there a possibility to get some aggi attributes and their skills reimbursed? because I might have to change some shield or athletic skill to WM to keep my WPF and I don't want to change any of the str skills.

this plz

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #106 on: November 09, 2013, 07:45:10 pm »
0
... lowering the damage on stabs f.e. side sword ...
dont you dare nerv the side sword again, i stil lcant really use it, but at least one of its attacks now works, rather reduce overall 1h stab speed on all 1h's

...
also high agi builds are crazy effective atm,  and are getting an undeserved buff.
...
while people may shout at me as 1h agi i wouldnt be objective, then again who is, what i wanted to say is, the only thing about agi based characters which atm is really fucking me up and as i see also happening to others, is that the weapon length to athl ratio is somehow fucked up. This is not seen out of a reality aspect, but out of playability and gameplay blanacing. When you see heavy armors with very long weapons bunny jumping around, outmanouvering agi based classes often in a fashion you have to wonder why you yourself put anything into athletcis ...

My point is:
The longer the weapon, the better the player already can outmanouver others, combined with then with athletics it gets crazy, combiend with people getting better and better at blocking everything(if not ebing outmanouvered themselves) The trend will still be the longer teh better combined with ath and experience = unbeatable.

... or increase 2h/pole weights

@sans
if you look at the graphs carefully, they do nearly as you suggested. It is more dynamic, the more you invest the more you get out of it, but not so much that it would be exponetial, the less you invest the less you get out of it.
Or id i miss your point here?

@str builds
your builds wont be completly unviable, you will but need to adjust your timing.
Str still ahs the same effect on knockdown, crushthrough and PS. If you dont have invested into or also dont wantto invest in the future into WPP, you will jsut be a few milliseconds slower ... so block more often

... chadz said no, that's why.
even he should be allwoed to change his mind, right?  :oops:

...I smell biased opinion here  :wink: Btw:
(click to show/hide)
as i hinted myself :wink::wink::wink:
then again, there is not such a thing as objectivity, only the ideal we can strive for.

@Osiris
it wont make agi builds super overpowered, but the use of WPM makes now more sence then before.
As mentioned, with 3 WPM, or less in higher levels because of inbuilt WPP increase through levels, you were able to pretty much neglect WPM ... which i did, but i also aimed already for my second respec(there falca it is my hidden agenda  :rolleyes:). So afterall, it aint so much a buff for agi, but a nef for those kinds of str based builds, who didnt put at all skill points into WPM.

also: thanks devs, this really was very long overdue ... and i can tell my clan mates, told you so :) there is another patch coming :) (i was just joking with them at that time, but hey i take what i can get  :lol:)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 07:48:14 pm by kinngrimm »
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Offline Osiris

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #107 on: November 09, 2013, 07:47:19 pm »
0
that was my point kinng i see all these people going omg respec to agi 1h etc agi is buffed loads yadda yadda when all i see is full str nerf and perfect hybrid nerf (me :( )
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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #108 on: November 09, 2013, 07:52:59 pm »
0
I myself call it , "Balancing" , it wasn't even a nerf nor a buff, but a change to a base game mechanic, which will strangely enough, not change the overall gameplay too much in the end.

As with every patch, first try it out, then try to change your shit according to the new rules and try to get used to it, then if that all wouldn't work out, start crying. But only then ^^. (then be prepared to be ignored ... for years)
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #109 on: November 09, 2013, 07:57:46 pm »
0
Its both a nerf to strength by losing swing speed/damage for everyone with less than 18 agi and a direct buff to anyone with over 18 agi. Its a double whammy balancing. They could do one or the other and still agi would be the preferred stat over 18 str imo. Theres no real reason to take your str higher. Even now without any changes agi is the better stat over 18/21 str
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 08:07:12 pm by Grumbs »
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Offline San

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #110 on: November 09, 2013, 08:11:58 pm »
0
@sans
if you look at the graphs carefully, they do nearly as you suggested. It is more dynamic, the more you invest the more you get out of it, but not so much that it would be exponetial, the less you invest the less you get out of it.
Or id i miss your point here?

IMO the curve is quite good, but because the cap will increase, there are some small tweaks that must be made. You have to take into account all of the ranged players. Additionally, high agi players are still locked into light armor if they care about wpf, now it just gives us 180-200wpf to play with when we lower our armor instead of 160-180. Just not sure how well lower wpf players could compete against 200+wpf players. It could work out amazingly, but it is a scary thought.

Offline Osiris

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #111 on: November 09, 2013, 08:15:19 pm »
0
you need 27 agi and full wpm to get 198 doesn't seem like there will be that many people with those builds?
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Offline Torost

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #112 on: November 09, 2013, 08:15:56 pm »
0
Xmas is getting close.. be the santa not the grinch. Hand out free respecs for all.

It is not like it cost anything, and it makes everyone happy. What is the downside?

Offline BlueKnight

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2013, 08:16:03 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

Also changing wpf which is a significant change in the builds should be followed by other changes (xbow requirement etc.) so once devs decide to give free respec they don't have to do that later again....

Also I don't understand it. For example Path of Exile's developers tend to give respecs when they change stuff. I haven't heard anyone complaining that he received a free, unwanted respec chance...
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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #114 on: November 09, 2013, 08:25:28 pm »
0
you need 27 agi and full wpm to get 198 doesn't seem like there will be that many people with those builds?
There will be many. Just like rondel dagger became a new thing in crpg once and everybody decided to create his funny-ass STF with rondel, this time people will swap to a lot of agi if it's the new trend :rolleyes:

If it can be abused it will be...

EDIT: Why am I doubleposting all the time lately -.- ?

EDIT2: I very much appreciate developers asking the community about the upcoming changes. It's a nice way of disaster prevention.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 08:32:29 pm by BlueKnight »
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Offline Kelugarn

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2013, 08:27:39 pm »
+1
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Offline WITCHCRAFT

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #116 on: November 09, 2013, 08:34:35 pm »
+3
I'm gonna be pissed if people stop playing high STR characters (particularly the dreaded tincan mauler)

They serve as a natural focal point for a team, because they are easily identifiable juggernauts who excel in teamfights.

Players tend to follow these juggernauts around (particularly if they are doing well) and before you know it, your team is nicely grouped up and ready to shitroll the opposition.

Voila! Accidental teamwork!

Instead of a bunch of cowardly scavengers following a T Rex around, the new accidental teamwork meta will be a pack of velociraptors circling the enemy at blinding speed and pecking away at them until they die.
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Offline Wrangham

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #117 on: November 09, 2013, 08:37:10 pm »
+2
These changes all look great but it is aspirin for the gunshot wound that is the cRPG battle. You will never fix balance problems until you implement game modes that prevent full-retard players rolling 39/3 Greatsword, 7/30 horse xbows, or X/X Troll-the-Server-by-Delaying. People have been suggesting "conquest" style modes for years.

Here's one I found after looking for about 15 seconds in the suggestions thread: 76% player support in a forum dominated by fanboy trolls.

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/change-battle-to-'conquest'-mode-by-spawning-motf-early-in-rounds/msg821494/#msg821494

Offline Bjord

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #118 on: November 09, 2013, 08:40:04 pm »
+4
Free WPF respec? Thanks. Going to abuse the shit out of 1h no shield.
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Offline Osiris

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #119 on: November 09, 2013, 08:44:01 pm »
0
Instead of a bunch of cowardly scavengers following a T Rex around, the new accidental teamwork meta will be a pack of velociraptors circling the enemy at blinding speed and pecking away at them until they die.


so because you cant go 36-3 etc everyone is going to go 15-27 etc? 24-15 etc is still going to be perfectly fine
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