WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[BlueKnight]

*Edit* After leveling, I got free wpp. That's why I have a higher wpf than I thought I should.

system is still buggy and you can gain a couple more wpf from that

[Patoson]

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[Kalp]

...

Half year later I must say that it was a bad change. The amount of speed-spam on siege is disgusting.

[Phew]

Half year later I must say that it was a bad change. The amount of speed-spam on siege is disgusting.

The wpp change was almost irrelevant, because sideswing sweetspots were changed at nearly the same time. The net result was actually slower attacks, because people can't hiltslash (hit super early in the animation to speed up attacks), now they have to actually attempt to keep their opponent roughly in front of them.

I think the old wpp system would have been fine in conjunction with the narrower sweetspots, since heavy strength guys could no longer use huge power strike to allow super-early hits (effectively making them swing faster than agility players). Now we just have a situation where everyone is 21/21 or close to it, and swinging at roughly the same speed (since the most popular weapons in every category are close to 100 speed). I miss the variety of fighting 33/9 and 15/27 guys and having to adjust your tactics accordingly.

[San]

I still think I would have preferred linear wpf reduction from armour instead of % based and lessening the scaling of WM to ~10 points instead of 7(old) and 14-15(now). I am glad wpf from leveling is gone, though, and 6-9 strength builds were made somewhat viable.

[Algarn]

I still think I would have preferred linear wpf reduction from armour instead of % based and lessening the scaling of WM to ~10 points instead of 7(old) and 14-15(now). I am glad wpf from leveling is gone, though, and 6-9 strength builds were made somewhat viable.

So, it's a good point for you that you can be killed by a katana/any spammy weapon with less than 5 hits without any ability to block the swings ?

[Macropus]

So, it's a good point for you that you can be killed by a katana/any spammy weapon with less than 5 hits without any ability to block the swings ?

What makes you think San is unable to block the swings?
And please tell me, in how many kills should a katana/any spammy weapon user kill you so that you'd consider it fine?

[San]

I'm glad the more diverse builds are available. Most will be able to block, some will not be able to. That will happen in any scenario. *shrug*

[Phew]

So, it's a good point for you that you can be killed by a katana/any spammy weapon with less than 5 hits without any ability to block the swings ?

In a battle/siege scenario, that 6-9 str. guy in light armor is probably going to be killed by an errant projectile long before he manages to kill you with 5+ swings or whatever it takes. Or you just facehug him and spam, and you probably 1-shot him with a lucky chamber or forced glance.

[Jona]

So, it's a good point for you that you can be killed by a katana/any spammy weapon with less than 5 hits without any ability to block the swings ?

This really isn't that bad of a problem... assuming everyone has 10 ping.   

The problem with increasing combat speed is that it only makes ping more relevant. Plenty of people (west coast NA players, at least) play with an average of 80 ping, and they are placed at a huge disadvantage (more than ever before) after this last patch. Combine high ping with shittier and shittier server lag, and once again the item balancers have taken a step in the right direction for killing off the mod. 

[Thranduil]

This really isn't that bad of a problem... assuming everyone has 10 ping.   

The problem with increasing combat speed is that it only makes ping more relevant. Plenty of people (west coast NA players, at least) play with an average of 80 ping, and they are placed at a huge disadvantage (more than ever before) after this last patch. Combine high ping with shittier and shittier server lag, and once again the item balancers have taken a step in the right direction for killing off the mod. 

Don't forget those of us who like to play siege. We often have to go to EU, and 139 ping is a nightmare there now, unless you play archer (and that's not easy either, but it's far more doable). I remember when the mod was young and I could still play EU Battle with ~140-150 ping competitively, often making the top ten (on my team). Of course, I was also level 34 and in Heraldic Plate, but point being, I could block, or at least predict. Now it's so fast, the swing animations don't always get processed on the super speedy builds' attacks with super speedy weapons.

[San]

This really isn't that bad of a problem... assuming everyone has 10 ping.   

The problem with increasing combat speed is that it only makes ping more relevant. Plenty of people (west coast NA players, at least) play with an average of 80 ping, and they are placed at a huge disadvantage (more than ever before) after this last patch. Combine high ping with shittier and shittier server lag, and once again the item balancers have taken a step in the right direction for killing off the mod. 

Considering you were for the wpf change in the past from what I remember, I find this kind of funny.

It's not so great for high ping, but on the flipside, a high ping player can use a fast weapon to overcome the delay when going from block to an attack. I see most people are too chicken to go above 8WM, even 7. Last time I was on EU siege, I saw a BlackCompany player on the top of the boards. KD wasn't great, but he was able to compete despite the ping. EU siege is a lot more fun than NA for me.

[Jona]

Considering you were for the wpf change in the past from what I remember, I find this kind of funny.

I was only "for" the patch before it was (poorly) implemented. I have been against it ever since it was implemented. It was being sold as a strength nerf, which is what we needed. However, what we got instead was a strength nerf AND an agi buff, making agi the OP class to play, especially since pure strength is no longer as viable.

I was agi before the patch and felt pretty well-balanced. Str builds were arguably OP, with both agi builds and balanced builds being the non-OP (but still highly effective) builds to play. Now that str builds are all but eliminated, agi has only become that much stronger for the min-maxers out there. Combine that with the  completely unnecessary buff that agi builds got, and we are in this current, very spammy, state of crpg.

[San]

Ah, okay. I mostly agree, just think that most are too scared to go full agi and instead choose balanced builds from what I notice. Raising the wpf cap wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be in practice, but imo didn't need to achieve 200+ levels so easily. Pretty much the same feelings I had since the topic was made. Strength builds with 4+ath are still great, while 9 and lower agi are in the same boat as 9 and lower strength as highly specialized and niche builds.

[Eugen]

I liked old str-crutch rpg more. Its just a feeling though. I also believe battle has become a lot more of a chaotic mess. I blame it on all the dancing and running agi-whores pros who cant hold in line to attack tactical points in a strong battlegroup. But just a feeling, however...