Author Topic: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood  (Read 5768 times)

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Offline Flans

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2013, 10:52:45 am »
-1
You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

I made this small for your small attention spans.
I wanted an avatar as cool as the Nords ones, but I have no skill with Photoshop, or Illustrator or anything like that >:(

Offline Osiris

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2013, 11:42:10 am »
+2
Strat drama best drama :-P
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Offline Darkoveride

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2013, 12:07:20 pm »
+1
This is my new favorite thread.

Keep Flaming.
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Offline RamsesXXIIX

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2013, 12:11:44 pm »
+1
You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

I made this small for your small attention spans.

Just like Kinngrimm, you conveniently miss the point and start talking about something completely different.

I say again, the notion was:

Did Kinngrimm backstab the Coalition?

You've said nothing to me about this point, so I would kindly ask you to go and make another thread or send me a pm about it. You're also welcome to come to my TS so we can talk it out, and we can both be enlightened.

As to what you're saying, I'll make a quick reply and then leave it to the rest of my coalition fellows to answer more thoroughly if need be.

You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

How can we betray the Wolves when we never had an alliance with them?

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

These two points join together. Looks like you forgot that we did send armies to the north to help the Apostates.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

This is just lies, there's really no need for me to answer this. I direct to the previous threads about these subjects. Read them and change your points, because they are nothing but baseless statements, (hopefully) born from ignorance.

I made this small for your small attention spans.

In short: Get your facts straight.

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2013, 12:23:51 pm »
-1

Kinngrimm, nobody asked for your novel about strategus :D
I wanted to a) show causalities & timelines b) perspectives

    The point gets lost in this massive wall of text.
That maybe so, still i tried to structure as good as possible.


I do call things differently sure, as from my perspective and my reasoning, they are.
I didn't deny my deeds as i told them i call them but a ruse with quite a different depth to it.
2 weeks tricking someone, with rarely any conntact, yes some lieing by fairly saying anything in a meeting OMG, as noone ever would ever lied on your behalf or you yourself.

... How can there be as much as a simple doubt in this matter?

 I respect you as a player, and I respect your intelligence Ramses Kinngrimm, but I certainly don't respect this unhinged disregard for other people. I'm well aware its a game, and I'm not taking things too seriously,

but the amount of constant arrogance you and your allies put into pressuring me to
leave "all the worthless smaller clans" behind. This was always the tenor from the big clans you know.
It started that way in strat 2.0 when i looked for cooperations and was small clan myself. And Risen, Mercs, Byzantium or Fallen all acted as bigshots not on eye level or worse treated me like a worthless peace of shit.


And now to the real hypocrisy: You even have the balls to be mad about others being traitors to you! You accuse the Brotherhood of being "Cowardly backstabbers" when you've done the exact same thing to at least as big a scale. As I've mentioned before, you're an intelligent man, so I am simply baffled that you allow yourself this false virtue.

So please, enlighten me on this matter (And only this).

Alright then lets ahve a look at you, hypocrits with double standarts trying to corrupt me, wanted me to be the same, to also treat the smaller clans with the exact same arrogance, leave them behind and betray them, but work with you as you would have have some inbreed higher value, royalty by choice, the bigger fish, with the rightousssness and the holy cause to fight DRZ and UIF

... dudes you have a blind spot in the size of a watermelon when it comes to introperspective. Dont you dare get all moral on me. I tried here again to reflect and tell you my view points of the story, but you still have your head up your ass,  so far there is no sunlight to be seen.

You wanted the Wolves even the templars, as our numbers were impressiv, but French Connection, Camel Screamers, CotgS ... you wanted me to kick them and leave them behind. You guys still dont get it or do you? You asked me over and over again, you tried me .., you tried to make me question myself and my values and you tried to corrupt my values instead of just leaving me alone and having a good time playing the game, you were the snake in the garden trying to break my will.

I don't condone my own action, i gave you to some extent something from your own medicin, i defeninetly despice how this game had already been played without me adding to it.

And then man, how you all went nuclear after it came out, as your people would be so much more worth then the 420 players i supported.

Tell me now, how worthless are the smaller clans? Even in the beginning of strat 4.0, Rogue repeated this notion by telling me "it isnt worth the trouble" Still the same subtext.

... to an extent it is trouble yes, but totally worth it, fun, helping dudes getting rolling in strat and if done right also effective as by now people should have realised.

So when you for once take your blindfold of your eyes, you may come to realise, that you punctured a nerv with me, back then and still do, by your blissfull ignorance over your own arrogance. If you want to call me a backstabber, do it, but dude, the wrotten once had been you all along.

Since strat 2.0 i worked with a plan in my mind towards enabling smaller clans, without dictating them.
I may not be the best person to do so, but i really tried as i saw it was the right thing to do.
The Project was/is called "Circle of Peace"(CoP) and the CFA is a predessor to it. Grandmom was the first i told about it and showed him my documents, which date back to the end of strat 2.0. Gettting something regualted so that smaller factions have a place on the map, with a few medium sized factions to protect the smaller once. And when those are ready help them to gain some areas outside of that construct.

So that huge clans and factions consisting out of several clans wouldnt be just taking shit away from the small dudes.
The goal was and is to get more colors on the map, not less.
Guess who is responsible for me having this goal?

Clans like yours.

So please, enlighten me on this matter (And only this).
Backstab after 7 months VS Ruse of 2 weeks
No tell, as they didnt say no VS 2 months telling to bugger of
Inferiority complex on Bros side VS Superiority complex on Fallen/Byzantium/Mercs
Using ressources which didnt belong to them VS i gave in the 2 weeks Kapikulu Ressources back, which they lost to a raider i recaptured for them, a substantial amount of gear
no remorse vs acceptance and acknologing my deeds, defining them partly differently


edit:
@FLANS Coallition hasnt had any alliance with Wolves, we have had a NAP and the same enemies.
But Coalltion had been allied, to Crusaders and Mercs. And Wolves had been allied to Crusaders.
And as Fallen/GK/HRE were in the same entity/alliance Coallition, we built the entity/alliance CFA(difference was we choose to keep the colors for every member, against efficency reasoning but pro Identity)
So Coallition was in their full right to attack us, as by definition in a "FULL ALLIANCE" they have the same enemies.
Really bad this situation was for Crusaders, as they had now to choose with whom to side with.

I also wrote Thomas and Rogue, that i didnt like the outcoem that we became enemies this strat, but they sticked to Mercs, who did a few things which in teh end brought eastern block down.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 12:34:54 pm by kinngrimm »
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Offline Flans

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2013, 01:12:14 pm »
0
How can we betray the Wolves when we never had an alliance with them?

aaaaand there we go, that was the only thing I wanted out of you, this whole forum vomiting can end now.
There was no betrayal since there was never an alliance to begin with.
This applies to the mercs as well.


>>>> THIS STRAT ROUND <<<< no one, I repeat NO ONE cares about strat 1,2 and 3.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:15:26 pm by Flans »
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Offline Molly

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2013, 01:36:58 pm »
0
[...] this whole forum vomiting can end now.
[...]
Please, don't, sooo much drama... it's awesome. Even addictive. Kinngrimm, the saviour of small clans vs... well... the rest really... right? Am I missing something?
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Offline Butan

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2013, 02:15:24 pm »
+4
I gathered my strength and read all those posts...


This, gentlemen, is what I learnt from hours of undue thinking:




In Strategus round 2 :

- A is at war with B on B claimed territory
- A wants to go at war with big C
- A propose peace and alliance with B
- B says ok, but in fact says no
- A goes to war with C
- A calls B to war against C
- B ignore the call from A
- C destroy all humanity and eat kittens

B says, A is evil, didnt deserve his word.
A says, B is evil, didnt respect his word.


In Strategus round 3 :

- B hates A, work against him
- A hates B, work against him


In Strategus round 4 :

- B hates A, work against him
- A hates B, work against him


[...]


In Strategus round 38 :

- B hates A, work against him
- A hates B, work against him




The End.

Offline Rogue

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2013, 02:20:21 pm »
+4
You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

I made this small for your small attention spans.

Yes, this is exactly how it went down! Do you really believe this? This is golden. thanks Wolves_FlameKid!  :lol:

@Kinn Ramses has you there, moving and twiggling will just squeeze them tighter.
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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2013, 02:23:36 pm »
0
....

>>>> THIS STRAT ROUND <<<< no one, I repeat NO ONE cares about strat 1,2 and 3.
I didn't bring it up, but i don't let myself get slandered from guys, who personally dont know me , but talk about my morals and telling me i'd be the hypocrit here ^^.

And Odysseus, this is more or less your first strat, at least in a leader position. Believe me, to those who interact with each other on that level, history does matter.

As it is the whole reason for the EAST vs WEST Block war of this round,
the unholy alliance vs UIF last round, the same in round 2 and it did start in round 1.

Another example, Mercs tried to stay neutral, in strat 1, that gained them a lot of areas and a lot of anger. In strat 2, they already had a prolonged contract partner, in 3.0 they sided with Fallen after getting wiped within the first months, as they pissed of at least one of the UIF members(Union) in 2.0, The comeback of Mercs into strat 3.0 was at one point neglected as Desert Alliance wiped the Fallen/HRE/GK second chance of Mercs ... guess who was blamed ^^.

So there is a causality to all these reactions, people coem to witness soemtiems on teh forum, if tehy don't know teh history, it is hard for them to see teh reasons and the legitemisy of arguments. Thats why my posts also are LONG. I want to fill in the blanks for those who don't know, instead of keeping everyone in the dark and just repeating mindless propaganda.

... Kinngrimm, the saviour of small clans vs... well... the rest really... right? Am I missing something?
Not a saviour as i do have self interests. Most of the times, the Wolves had been a small to medium sized clan. Only in strat 3.0 we became fucking huge, then still not as huge as other clans.

I don't want to have to be a huge faction/clan only so i wouldn't be bullied and interact as equal.
I still think Game Mechanics need to take that more into consideration as a balancing issue.

.
.
.

At start of 4.0 we had been roughly 30 members in the faction. I had still friends from 3.0 CotgS 20 members, Les Trois Lys(French Connection) 40 members and my friends Crusaders, which but instead of the original plan we had, to go together in the snowlands wanted to be in the desert. I know the reasons for that and it was ok. Also Alpha made an Alliance between Templars and Wolves, by that trying to protect our asses up in the North. That worked as they also had been close to Coallition/Mercs meanwhile, who may have just kicked us out straight at the start. Afterall there was quite some trust issues, as in this thread again confirmed by ramses and seen with the attacks from Mercs 8 month ago.

I, the Wolves, the CFA, did their part to prove that we can be trust worthy, but Mercs continued undermining the spirit of the eastern block. Like, asking me to attack Ottomans, telling me they would do so too, then staying out of it and making a "neverending NAP" with Ottoamns gaining Sargoth area for free, while (i imply) hoping for CFA to bleed. The reasosn behind that you can put together yourself. And there had been other things, personal attacks, the least of them, lieing and giving false hope ... and instead of helping Crusaders in their time of need when they where taking out one Grey Order fief after another while getting attacked in their Yalen areas(funfact: i bought and sold to Crusaders ^^, as occitan arowain had been an ally the strat before) and i/Wolves/CFA were bound with Ottomans war; Mercs stood idly by.

That was THE turning point in the war against UIF and within the eastern block. Not only me or Crusaders, but also Coallition were then pissed at Mercs.

Then trying again to get them to hold a few agreeemnts, they earlier distantiated themselves from and i lost my cool in the forum over the fucking propaganda crap of mercs, shortly afterwards, i disallowed them free passage, and after that they attacked us and our Defense Pact Partner BlackFist joined in on Mercs side, so did our CFA Alliance Partner Brootherhood.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 03:08:23 pm by kinngrimm »
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Offline Osiris

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2013, 02:35:39 pm »
0
What we do in strat echos in eternity!!

Your going to have the same enemies every strat because you all don't like or trust each other :P only small/solo factions led by those not well knock or not leaders of previous factions can change or do anything different it seems ^^
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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2013, 02:40:36 pm »
0
...

@Kinn Ramses has you there, moving and twiggling will just squeeze them tighter.
:) look Rogue, i don't blame big clans for being big, i see the arms race and the simalarites to RL politics and geopolitical strategies. I even get that Okin, tried to stay neutral in 3.0/4.0 and when i asked him also again, imposing the realities that we needed that space to be able to get our economy up, that he wasnt inclide to be pressed into an alliance in 3.0. I do get that you, ramses, and others had have some hopes in strat 3.0, which had been shattered by me and that in a way which wasnt nice and i told you in 4.0 in the beginning and later, i wouldnt hold it against you if you would just wipe us, up there in the north. You had been speaking very openly, sometimes rough, but at least not to me ever insulting. I do respect you and came to like your personality.

Please but try to understand, that the way i came to be in strategus, the way i was treated, does matter. It is about realtions after everything else. And while HRE even in 2.0 did retreat from an attack after i questioned what was going on, i was at that time too close through a contract with some very very paranoid people, then again Mercs have also quite some nice people, and i f.e. do still like Gingerpussy very much. I had very deep and long talks with him in strat 2.0 and we shared a few moments of equality, mutual understanding and  to some extent as it is possible in this virtual environment also friendship, same counts to soem extent for some other Mercs like Blueberry. So i also do get that they were disappointed in strat, taht a) i wouldnt help them b) were even going against them when Mercs choose Fallen/HRE sides after getting wiped and tried to get back in the game with your help.

I did see my wrong in strat 3.0, and i tried to make up for it in 4.0 and you know it!
That i still have nevertheless different perspectives on strat 3.0 is in the nature of things inherent. There i agree to disagree.
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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2013, 02:56:39 pm »
0
...

Your going to have the same enemies every strat ...
2.0
position: center
partner: contract for mutual security with a defined end point with mercs; cotgs as friends who helped, and Bandits which first became vassalas and then mergerd into Wolves.
enemies: we had a count of at least 16 different clans and also including alliance entities we waged war against.
3.0
position: desert
partners: cotgs, Crusaders, camel screamers, French connection(viva la france :D); Hospitallers, Occitan, Lost Legion
enemies: Nords, Byzantium, Kapikulu, GK, HRE, Fallen, Mercs, Grey Order, Chaos

4.0
position: Snowlands with intention to stick there from now on every round
partners: cotgs, Les Trois Lys(the kings sign the flower) aka French Conenction, Crusaders but at a different position, Eastern block
ennemies: many more new once and then again old once ...
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Offline Rogue

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2013, 03:00:26 pm »
+5
The point is that you still try to whitewash what happened in Strat3. Remember what you told me on Steam immediatly after the big "coming out"? That you were sorry and you claimed that, at the very least, you will not try to deny and stand for what and how you did it? This did not last very long, minutes later you were already hard had work to construct the tale of an unwilling kinngrimm being "pressured" into something he didn't want.

It was not even close to that. You had your backs to the wall and the war vs the Nords was going nowhere. I even asked you specifically about Hospitaller & Occitan, because after talking with Peppo & Arrowaine (which was bascially a 30min rant about what an evil SOB Loki was), I had serious doubts there would be any agreement possible. You claimed they didn't matter and the war should go on. I don't know where this sad story about the opressed small clans comes from, but it was never a topic in these talks. There was also no unwillingness on your part. You seemed very eager for it, even personally put up the agreement on googledocs to move things forward.

It did work out for you beautifully I have to give you that. Until GO came knocking ofc. Well played, but just stop trying to whitewash it from the "stain" being a backstabber, you lied to my face daily for a month on a very personal level.

Quote
I did see my wrong in strat 3.0, and i tried to make up for it in 4.0 and you know it!
Yes you did! I admit I was not happy when Alpha "rammed you all down our collective throats", as we came to call it, on the voting day. First we accepted it mainly because of Alpha, who we and especially I already held in high regards <3. We also fulfilled our obligations to you in the voting, as strange as it felt to hand over all these fiefs to someone so many of us still wanted to see bleed.

We did form a good working relationship and I came to trust you again. Remember hat I told you about that Ottoman/Merc issue and your concerns about Mercs in general! When the Apostates started that war against Wolves/CFA we were asked to participate (by both sides btw) and contemplated doing it, but among being a collosal waste of resources you did not deserver it, and especially after you left punishing Wolves for Strat3 would have been wrong. I even worked my ass off to help broker a peace between some very stubborn Mercs and Wolves with outrageous and silly demands on both sides. In the end big turkish pride and general inactivity made it all useless. A decision I presently regret.

Quote
Mercs stood idly
The story of Mercs in Strat 4 summed up. I am not saying this to trashtalk Mercs, just ask Tyr how much I kept trying to kick his ass into action.

As a sidenote:
Quote
And while HRE even in 2.0 did retreat from an attack after i questioned what was going on
I do remember this, first time we ever talked. But this giant army was always inteded to and proceeded to head further north to help FCC vs DRZ.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 03:04:42 pm by Rogue »
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Offline Casimir

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Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2013, 03:03:07 pm »
0
essentially this ^
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