Suggestions to re-balance throwing.

[Native_ATS]

Funny.  I have 5 shield skill, and use the brown heater shield or elite cav shield and notice that I get shot all the time both above and below the damned thing.  ManofWar has said the same, even Balb has mentioned this since the shield nerf along with many other shielders.  With my archer and my xbowman I shoot people above and below their shields as well, even (especially) the buckler shields.

Of course haven't used the plated shield so perhaps that one is broken, though I really wonder because the guys with heavy board shields are getting shot through/around their shields as well nowadays.

ugh, go play native its the same there
bord sheild dont cover your feet... but other then that you are right as far as i know

[Fluffy_Muffin]

8 PT 148 WPF and trowing knives. Try it, its epic

[AlbaTiger]

Throwing knives were always great fun.

The only thing is that I always felt really bad when being charged by someone with no shield and I am sticking knife after knife into their chest, I almost want them to get to me and kill me.

Don't like PT8 so much though...cause that means a 24/12 build maybe 24/15 if you push it a bit.

I am waaay too used to playing as a skirmisher so athletics 4 or 5 really just never feels like enough to me.
 

[Cheap_Shot]

Suggested Changes To Throwing

• Increase stacks slightly, more for lower damage weapons.
• Have wpf effect accuracy more.
• Have heir-looming increase projectile speed.
• Remove the wpf limiter, or make powerthrow agility based if possible. hard code roadblock. Just lower wpf instead I guess or find a better limiter.
• Have shields reduce accuracy moderately. Impossible. Oh well.
• Increase powerthrow requirement for only higher tier weapons.

While making powerthrow agility based might sound crazy, if you can do it, it would actually cut down on the amount of spam, since the power strikers wouldn't be able to put points in power throw easily anymore. Ranged characters like x-bowers and archers would get more out of just sticking to their chosen invested weapons as well.

The only people who would take throwing would be agility based melee skirmishers, and pure throwers, which is how it really should be.

A man can dream...

[Spawny]

I haven't gotten anywhere as far as I know, so I'll just make my probably final list of suggested balances and hope for the best.

Suggested Changes To Throwing

• Increase stacks slightly, more for lower damage weapons.
• Have wpf effect accuracy more.
• Have heir-looming increase projectile speed.
• Remove the wpf limiter, or make powerthrow agility based if possible. (Discussion point)
• Have shields reduce accuracy moderately.
• Increase powerthrow requirement for higher tier weapons.

While making powerthrow agility based might sound crazy, if you can do it, it would actually cut down on the amount of spam, since the power strikers wouldn't be able to put points in power throw easily anymore. Ranged characters like x-bowers and archers would get more out of just sticking to their chosen invested weapons as well.

The only people who would take throwing would be agility based melee skirmishers, and pure throwers, which is how it really should be.

Agility based PT is a baaaad idea. I appreciate the thought, but you can create a 10 PT, 10 WM, 10 athletics pure thrower with that change. 190 wpf AND really high damage. They get close? Run for it.
I wouldn't mind the change, but it would make pure throwing too powerful.

[EponiCo]

Well I think keeping the requirements but making a behind the scenes switch with a complicated formula could work.
PT increases accuracy and WPF does not but both raise damage? Well fine, make it so that raising WPF increases PT instead and PT WPF with proper scaling and it's done. Well, ok, some day someone finds out that 110 wpf is 5 PT and 130 is 6 and noone goes for 120 wpf anymore, but you could add the wpf inbetween to your real wpf.

[AlbaTiger]

Agility based PT is a baaaad idea. I appreciate the thought, but you can create a 10 PT, 10 WM, 10 athletics pure thrower with that change. 190 wpf AND really high damage. They get close? Run for it.
I wouldn't mind the change, but it would make pure throwing too powerful.

The thing is that character would still not be that powerful.

It would have the massively reduced ammo limits (compared to other ranged), far from high damage compared to the likes of the top crossbows or 2handers, you would be unable to have much armour as the wpf would quickly drop below the 150 requirement for the 10 Power Throw, no wpf in another weapon for the same reason, you would have no powerstrike, and you would still have a very low range compared to other ranged.

Having agility 10 means nothing at all when you've got no strength, no power strike, no wpf in melee, no armour, and most importantly NO WEAPONS after a few hits on flesh or shields or simply having ammo going missing or being out of reach.

So yeah quite simply put I doubt a full AG dedicated thrower with 10 PT, 10 WM and 10 Ath would be overpowered. Yes it would probably kill someone who runs straight at it with no shield (much like most ranged do) but in doing so the thrower would use maybe a quarter of their ammo.

[Cheap_Shot]

Had a talk with Paul and he shined some light on a few things. When I suggested agility based throwing, I assumed it could be limited but apparently there's some hard coding problems in the way so that idea is probably out. I love the sound of it though. Maybe one day when the devs can change hard coded stuff but not today.

Also I think they've made up their minds about what they're going to do, but feel free to continue the discussion. Maybe you can all put your heads together and come up with a brilliant idea to replace the wpf limiter with. I can't think of anything right now and I haven't been at my computer much the past week.

Maybe just chant "LOWER IT LOWER IT URRGHG!" until you're all muted. Maybe. Always an option. Might work? Who knows these things. I'll be out of town and unable to participate sadly. I swear.

Edit: Edited list. See above for details.

[Brutal]

The wpf requirement is such bullcrap considering that the class than needed it the most xbow did evade it.
You don't have to invest skillpoints so you don't have to have wpf logic !!!!

If you get punish you get punish even more and if you have an advantage well here's another... 

Mission unbalancing: 100% success

[cmp]

The wpf requirement is such bullcrap considering that the class than needed it the most xbow did evade it.
You don't have to invest skillpoints so you don't have to have wpf logic !!!!

This makes no sense whatsoever. How can you apply a malus when there is no skill to apply it to?

[Ronin]

Maybe add a different skill besides Strenght and Agility such as Throwing, in which power throw and thwoing wpf are based on. Not realistic but maybe such a surrealist action will solve the problem.

[Team_Jacob]

This makes no sense whatsoever. How can you apply a malus when there is no skill to apply it to?

Make them really inaccurate and really slow to reload without wpf? Enough so that it is extremely cumbersome to use them without 75+ wpf, but not so much that someone with 100+ wpf will be penalized.

[Gurnisson]

To people who complain about Devs not talking about it:

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5372.msg99529.html#msg99529

Like Fasader said in the post, it's not final, but you can see it's being worked upon. Let's wait and see.

[Cheap_Shot]

To people who complain about Devs not talking about it:

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5372.msg99529.html#msg99529

Like Fasader said in the post, it's not final, but you can see it's being worked upon. Let's wait and see.

He posted that on may 19th. Said it was up in the air and could change, but didn't respond to any questions suggestions or requests. The only recent comments he's made have been sarcastic jabs.

Paul on the other hand was a pleasure to talk to, and responded to my pm recently with plenty of information. Cleared up a lot of questions I'd been trying to get answers from Fasader for weeks. So thanks Paul, good on you man. Thanks for offering back a little hope.

[YourLord]

When is the goddamn item patch coming? I am tired of paying insane repairs for 4 axes which can be used to kill 1 person if you actually manage to hit all of them which is borderline impossible, unless you only use them in doorways or stairs (still the accuracy is laughable).
These things cost me as much repair as my main weapon with efficiency ratio of about 1(axes) to 10(any 2H/Polearm)

The only satisfaction I get is one in a million random headshot which is oh so epic and satisfying, but has no skill involved and is pure luck.
Oh and btw my throwing charracter is so assraped by the new changes, I have 8 PT on my thrower and 50wpf from previous patch... now whats wrong with that with the new patch...?