Nerf Kicks

[Leshma]

skilled 15/30 shielder with steel pick and elite cav shield.

 

[Kafein]

Exactly, a shield and such a short weapon makes even a great player pretty limited.

[Leshma]

Well Kafein, maybe you should stop using heaviest shield in this mod and pick something lighter. Buckler maybe. You are so narrow minded when it comes to balance discussion, it hurts. I remember when you used to argue about 1Hcav on TW forums, just because you played cav atm. Look at other players a bit, look which weapons and build are dominant atm and then come to conclusions.

[Kafein]

Well Kafein, maybe you should stop using heaviest shield in this mod and pick something lighter. Buckler maybe. You are so narrow minded when it comes to balance discussion, it hurts. I remember when you used to argue about 1Hcav on TW forums, just because you played cav atm. Look at other players a bit, look which weapons and build are dominant atm and then come to conclusions.

I still think melee cav as a whole sucks right now, I just gave up playing it. Also heaviest shield what. The heaviest shield I've been using during the entire last year is the board shield, and even then I only use it like once in fifty rounds. I suggest you take whatever medicine you need :/


The weapons and builds I see are dominant right now in siege when it comes to melee is 4d polearms because they skip frames like there's no tomorrow and that makes it very difficult to perfect block them. All these Fenris elite cav shielders with tiny weapons ? Yeah they are harder to kill than your average siege player because they actually know when to block, but other than that their weapons are weaker, much shorter and unless you fight very naively, slower than good 2h and polearms. I would trade fighting Rollicks or Nokeyboard for Danior or Alonza any day.

[Leshma]

Nokeyboard uses Quarter Staff which is simply too fast. For some reason 100 speed polearms are a lot faster than 100 speed one handers...

I'm glad that more people haven't figured out that fast polearms are the way to go. But they are abusing fast shielder builds, today I've seen at least 5 rondel my old friends on siege server...

Anyway, I don't mind losing to the likes of Nokeyboard because I know he's very good player who knows everything (includes manual blocking). But I have problem losing to the likes of kinngrimm because I know they are dead meat without their shield.

[Tzar]

Leshma, you know... your´a rather terrible at manuel blocking yourself, so stop bashing other players 

[Leshma]

Yeah, you're the one to tell. Dude who's either playing shielder or STR oriented melee char with 70 body armor. Gtfo.

[kinngrimm]

...I would trade fighting Rollicks or Nokeyboard for Danior or Alonza any day.

Fighting Nokeyboard is like signing your own death sentence. He doesnt do that much dmg himself, but damn those knockdowns all the time while 3 other enemies are around. Besides he realy knows how/when to block and even a normal attack on him perfectly timed often is just not good enough as he moves to the side and spams and once again you land on the floor.

Also yes Fenris has some very good shielders, long time players, all besides myself also able to block manually 
Still we are not centred on shielders, i would like to have more throwers and cavalary players in Fenris, too. Basicly i would accept anyone who is older then 20 and has his head not up his ars, sry Leshma still no invitation for you  , besides you are an independant player anyways.

ontopic:
Promoting to keep a broken mechanic is by default already a wrong aproach.
It is broken because the original target, shielders are not the sole or main targets anymore. Kicks are used against anyone who comes too close. It is broken as the changes the first time, were said to be under review later on, which then but didnt happen.

The increase of shielders, wont be increased or descreased by changing kicks, it would be stopped by shields being less needed, that but only happens when there would be less ranged players.
Ranged players are in a positiv feedback loop, Shielders are supposed to be their counter, which they arent, still lots of 2h/pole players switched to 1h/shield as they got frustrated from ranged or they just stopped playing.

... But I have a problem losing to the likes of kinngrimm because I know they are dead meat without their shield.

that made my day, well i guess you need to get yourself an axe or keep on trying to shoot me in the back. In the end, if you got a problem .. adapt, wasnt that one of the things you suggested?
Besides that, i and everyone else is aware of that i am rather bad at manual blocking, guess what ... i got myself a shield  and still people succeed in killing me over and over again   damn no god mode for me 
Yesterday i got killed by a peasent, a real peasent who i never heared from before, he finshed what others started, still i cherished that moment, it reminded me from where i started 3 years ago.

[Osiris]

Just because you cant handle agi shields leshma doesn't mean retarded kicks is the answer Currently you can kick with insane range and to the left or right etc. Native kick is much better. Native kick + no block would make it rarer and more skill than spam.

[Kafein]

Nokeyboard uses Quarter Staff which is simply too fast. For some reason 100 speed polearms are a lot faster than 100 speed one handers...

I'm glad that more people haven't figured out that fast polearms are the way to go. But they are abusing fast shielder builds, today I've seen at least 5 rondel my old friends on siege server...

Anyway, I don't mind losing to the likes of Nokeyboard because I know he's very good player who knows everything (includes manual blocking). But I have problem losing to the likes of kinngrimm because I know they are dead meat without their shield.

Tbh even though he's a bigger pain in the ass with his staff, Nokeyboard doesn't seem to be any slower using a glaive or a long axe. That's just how broken polearms are IMO.

I respect good shielders because it takes a different, not smaller set of skills to be successful with a shield. It doesn't magically make you competitive. I have far less respect for 2h and polearm players that continuously try to abuse their reach or warband engine limitations. Of course you can play like an asshole with a shield too. There's the infamous left swing spam and perma-turtling, but that doesn't mean the best shielders are to be considered less skilled than the best 2h and the best polearm players.


Saying you have a problem losing to kinngrim is like me saying I have a problem losing to the likes of Varadin because I hit him 5 times in a row but he's still alive then he oneshots me when I bounce on his armor.

[rustyspoon]

The problem with kicks is that they break the game reality. Since the kicking area and duration has absolutely nothing to do with the kicker's leg, you really have no idea whether you're in a safe zone or not.

After someone kicks, you can't approach them either as their kick may still be active. Because of the long duration, you really have no idea.

Chamber kicking is pointless, because by the time you recover from being kicked, the guy you knocked on the ground can block again.

The only safe way to fight someone who kicks a lot is to stay out of their range. So you either need a long weapon, or if you have a short 1-hand you have to right swing/stab them to death. Makes for a boring fight.

Kicks do need a fix, but as that won't happen without a WSE fix...I won't hold my breath.

[korppis]

The only safe way to fight someone who kicks a lot is to stay out of their range. So you either need a long weapon, or if you have a short 1-hand you have to right swing/stab them to death.

Jumping works too and grants you a free headshot.

[kinngrimm]

Jumping works too and grants you a free headshot.

while this may work at times

The problem with kicks is that they break the game reality. Since the kicking area and duration has absolutely nothing to do with the kicker's leg, you really have no idea whether you're in a safe zone or not.

After someone kicks, you can't approach them either as their kick may still be active. Because of the long duration, you really have no idea.
...

Not being able to recognize or predict, renders technics to counter kicks useless. Some suggested you can trick people into kicking you, that maybe true under certain circumstances a) the kicker is well known(no gear changes) and well known for kicking in certain situations b) you consiously get yourself into such a situation and keep track of the movement patterns which would lead to the opponents kicks c) you still need to get the timing right.
That all seems to be a lot of trouble to go through to trap/counter ^^ a kick. When this would have worked several times, the kicker will adjust and be more carefull, while the game mechanics remains broken.

[Leshma]

Saying you have a problem losing to kinngrim is like me saying I have a problem losing to the likes of Varadin because I hit him 5 times in a row but he's still alive then he oneshots me when I bounce on his armor.

Varadin is a native player and can block very well when he wants. Kinngrimm is just a player who abuses whatever he finds suitable. Can't block manually, have awful footwork for someone with 10 ATH, can't even feint fast enough. But yes, he kills me a lot. Mostly in gank but 1vs1 he gets in your face which combined with ping difference between him and me and famous Warband's crappy collision detection (players going through models ftw) grants him a free hit WHICH CAN'T BE BLOCKED.

If it was up to me, I would completely render his build pointless by either nerfing blunt/pierce damage of one handed weapons or simply raise STR requirement so he can't have more than 24 AGI and use pick/mace/whatever damaging.

[Paul]

Kinngrimm might be a shameless lobbyist and of course his opinion is mostly disregarded because of that but at least he's moderately sane.