Are you kidding me?

[Tydeus]

I hear hp becomes more effective the more armor the user(horse) has, confirm/deny?

Seems to me like these changes hurt armored horses the least.

[Duke]

I'm a crossbowman and I hate cavalry with a passion, but I agree that it's unfair to nerf their heirlooms without a refund.


signed,
your bitter enemy, but also your friend (THIS TIME!)   

[Havoco]

In the case of a cataphract, it's an armored horse. I'd think you would want more hp and armor instead. And yes tydeus, because horses have so much hp, every point of armor counts a big deal (and more when u add more hp with armor addition!)

But I know utraque uses coursers more than armored horses so what happened with those?

[Cyclopsided]

throwing rocks still have a stacksize of 8. I guess they are next in line.

For the record, bro, my masterwork stones used to have 15 per bag. 15.
let's count


nope, still wasn't 8 per stack.
(sorry, i just laughed)
(and i got to trade my stone heirlooms into a PIKE AND I AM A HAPPY PLAYER)
[throwing got shit on a little too hard though, it isn't really viable anymore, needs higher accuracy or something]

[Jarlek]

For the record, bro, my masterwork stones used to have 15 per bag. 15.
let's count


nope, still wasn't 8 per stack.
(sorry, i just laughed)
(and i got to trade my stone heirlooms into a PIKE AND I AM A HAPPY PLAYER)
[throwing got shit on a little too hard though, it isn't really viable anymore, needs higher accuracy or something]

Sort of completely off topic, but are you talking about the pike, now known as long spear, or the pike formerly known as long pike? I put a loom in the former pike, but after having gotten used to the pike in Fire and Sword, I want to go long pike here too. How is it you think?

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

I never welcome cav nerfs but i test it out before bitchin'

but even though he rants a lot, i have to admit that magikarp has a point!

In riding, its speed and maneouvrabilty that saves you and your horses ass and not the armor...
Riding sarranid or courser i zigzag making hit harder for the rangeshit to hit me. When i crash into a tree i do a spin before leaving confusing the archer and evading arrows.
With heavier horses this is much harder, you cant suddenly turn round and speed away...

More armor...thats good but loosing speed and maneouvrability....makes me even more
vulnerable to my greatest enemy, the xbowman
the f***** even with a light xbow does insane amount and damage taking away 75% wearing vaegir elite armor....now that my cat horse is slower and less turning...I...I dont even want to think about it...im gonna get totally raped and even more by horse xbowmen...

So speed and manoeuver saves you and your horse, horse armor...just your horse...

I really feel like bitchin about new stats (what, arabian horse got more speed? What destrier has better or equal stats in all except speed). But ill try it out first and i love my courser <3

[Utraque]

Just checked my thread and suddenly saw all the back and forth!

In the case of a cataphract, it's an armored horse. I'd think you would want more hp and armor instead. And yes tydeus, because horses have so much hp, every point of armor counts a big deal (and more when u add more hp with armor addition!)

But I know utraque uses coursers more than armored horses so what happened with those?

Thanks for your reply, Havoc; hopefully, I can try to steer us back to my original question...

If you're going to nerf a heirloomed weapon (which *is* understandable...some weapons can simply become too powerful for proper game balance), why not at least give people refunds for their hard-earned heirlooms?

It's not as though my choice to heirloom a Couser was abusive in any way. I was presented a set of choices, and picked one item out of dozens to heirloom.

Here was the pre-patch Courser, with the Heavy Courser's stats to the side:
hit points 100-----------> 110
body armor 18----------> 24
requirement 4-----------> same
horse speed 48----------> same
horse maneuver 42------> same
horse charge 24----------> 32

This was a substantial improvement in the durability of a fast but fragile horse. In my own words, it made this horse into the faster, "Sport" version of the Destrier (whose primary virtue was it's greater durability over lighter horses).

It made me - a fellow who swore to his clanmates he wouldn't retire because it required so much extra time - work for an heirloom to apply to my courser.

Now? Here is the "Well Bred Courser", the Heavy's replacement at Gen1, next to the Heavy Courser.

hit points 105<----------- 110
body armor 18<---------- 24
requirement        same
horse speed         same
horse maneuver 43<------ 42
horse charge 25<---------- 32

It effectively eliminates the durability gain and charge bonus.

What's worse, is that the only improvements this gives over a basic Courser are 5hp (-5 hp, -6 armour, and -7 charge  from the Heavy), plus 1 charge, and plus 1 maneuver. Maybe that's game balance, but that isn't the point.

All I am saying is that if you dramatically change a heirloomed weapon (as is the case with this specific horse), shouldn't you refund that 'heirloom point' to the owner? Please?