Author Topic: 0.3.0.4  (Read 40188 times)

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Offline Daunt_Flockula

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #180 on: August 20, 2013, 01:36:47 pm »
0
I'm highly interested in feedback on the animation optimizations. This will likely affect weapon balance, so feel free to explain any differences you guys notice.

Going to post this here so more people can see it.Left side is damage/how far the arm has extended, bottom of the graph is the elapsed time (in %).

I've been running mad thinking that 1h thrusts have been buffed. But reading this carefully, I understand the exact change better. So, it is just a necessary animation change and it is only a matter of getting used to the proper animations now. Point taken dear Tydeus.

Offline Phew

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #181 on: August 20, 2013, 03:01:43 pm »
+6
I've been running mad thinking that 1h thrusts have been buffed. But reading this carefully, I understand the exact change better. So, it is just a necessary animation change and it is only a matter of getting used to the proper animations now. Point taken dear Tydeus.

I've had a while to evaluate the new 1h thrust, and here are my impressions:
1. You can actually hit people toward your left with a thrust now; the animation used to be "out of steam" before you could even rotate left. This is good.
2. The attack seems active a bit too long at full extension; i.e. you can deliberately miss then "wiggle" the attack into the enemy for full damage. This is reminiscent of the "roflcopter pike" everyone gets upset about.
3. It still glances at short-medium range. Short swords especially should be the ideal weapon for close-quarters thrusting, instead they are inferior to both 2h and pole in this situation.

As much as I enjoy being able to stab people 1.7m meters away with a 1h, I don't think we need yet another thrust attack that people are wiggling all over the battlefield for nonsensical hits. I'd prefer that the sweetspot function be adjusted so that short swords are effective stabbing implements at close range (their historical role). Let 2h and pikes be the long range stabbing weapons.

The new 1h right swing, however, seems pretty much perfect to me (less frustrating without introducing any exploitable mechanics).

 


Offline Tojo

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #182 on: August 20, 2013, 11:32:47 pm »
0
. It still glances at short-medium range. Short swords especially should be the ideal weapon for close-quarters thrusting, instead they are inferior to both 2h and pole in this situation.

As much as I enjoy being able to stab people 1.7m meters away with a 1h, I don't think we need yet another

i think this has to.do with the actual weapon reach when your character uses their arms to swing. I k.ow that both 1h and 2h thust animationd give you extra length on your attack. This being opposed to polearm where you actually have less reach when you thrust.

when using a thrust with 1h it seems like starting the thrust at their torso and pulling the blade down to finish the animation at their feet is the only way to get the stab in, while at close quarters

Offline Jarold

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #183 on: August 21, 2013, 12:49:59 am »
+1
All thrust attacks give you more reach, it's just the polearm thrust isn't as long as a two hand.

Offline FrugFrug

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #184 on: August 21, 2013, 07:16:57 am »
+4
Thing I like most about the new 1h stab is that you can stab people on the ground without glancing.

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #185 on: August 21, 2013, 04:54:29 pm »
+1
Thing I like most about the new 1h stab is that you can stab people on the ground without glancing.

Yeah never even thought about how terrible it was trying to stab someone on the ground before, good call.
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Offline Phew

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #186 on: August 21, 2013, 07:16:37 pm »
+7
Thing I like most about the new 1h stab is that you can stab people on the ground without glancing.

I always thought the "stab guy on ground, glance on ground, guy pops up and one-shots you" sequence was there just to remind us lowly 1h users of our place in the crpg hierarchy  :?

Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #187 on: August 21, 2013, 11:16:36 pm »
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Spathovaklion needs its stab back.
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Offline Nightmare798

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #188 on: August 21, 2013, 11:22:15 pm »
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Spathovaklion needs its stab back.

spathovaklion was one of strongest 1h weapons pre patch man.
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Offline Phew

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #189 on: August 22, 2013, 01:30:14 am »
+4
spathovaklion was one of strongest 1h weapons pre patch man.

Still is. It has speed, reach, weight, and damage beyond relative balance of the other 1h blunt weapons.

Offline Jarold

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #190 on: August 22, 2013, 04:22:44 am »
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I think its damage needs to be nerfed quite a bit, speed is fine but the damage is ugghh. It also looks really tiny like it wouldn't hurt too much so damage neerrfff.

Offline Tojo

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #191 on: August 22, 2013, 04:49:41 am »
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ima let you finish and all but, spathovaklion beyonce was one of strongest 1h weapons of all time!

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #192 on: August 22, 2013, 05:11:12 pm »
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I think its damage needs to be nerfed quite a bit, speed is fine but the damage is ugghh. It also looks really tiny like it wouldn't hurt too much so damage neerrfff.

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I disagree.  These are all the 1h's with over 25 blunt damage.  The Spathovaklion is 27 blunt, which isn't that strong compared to other 1h blunts (it's not weak either, middle of the road.

The stronger blunt 1h's are slower and shorter.  I think people use it due to it's higher speed and length than other blunt 1h's.  I can see maybe dropping damage down to 26, but I think the price should drop too then. 
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Offline Phew

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #193 on: August 22, 2013, 10:01:03 pm »
+3
The stronger blunt 1h's are slower and shorter.  I think people use it due to it's higher speed and length than other blunt 1h's.  I can see maybe dropping damage down to 26, but I think the price should drop too then.

I dislike weapons that make another weapon totally obsolete; the Spathovaklion is longer, faster, heavier, and the same damage as the Winged Mace, making it totally obsolete.

Even the extra 2 speed and 4cm reach it has over the Iberian is too much for only giving up 1 damage. Typically 1 swing dmg and 1 speed are given roughly equal value in weapon balancing (see Liuyedao vs. Niuweidao, for instance).

Spathovaklion could be balanced by lowering its weight to 1.5kg or so; this would give it the lowest knockdown chance of 1h blunt weapons, but still maintain decent damage and high speed. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 10:04:20 pm by Phew »

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: 0.3.0.4
« Reply #194 on: August 22, 2013, 10:19:50 pm »
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But the winged mace is half the price and does the same damage (for 1 less speed, and 5 less reach).  I think the 5 less reach is the most significant aspect here.  Spathvoklian (sp?) is the 2nd most expensive 1h blunt weapon.  And the Iberian is 33% cheaper.  Maybe the spathv does need to either have it's price increased (I don't think it's as good as the warhammer in sieges...) or some other stats reduced some.  I think it's pretty much on par for blunt weapons and pricing though.
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