Horses have no natural predators

[Chestaclese]

fine using the langes messer is pretty OP, it has better stats than the pathetic katana when in 2h mode.

100 speed vs 101
92 reach vs 95
37 cut vs 35
24 pierce vs 16
1 slot vs 2 slot

come on item balance team, I know your smarter than this >.>

Lets stay on topic. In summation horses are currently unbalanced because:

1) There is no longer a ranged class that can keep calvary in line
2) The sound system is bogus
3) Horsies are too fast
4) Asking everyone to carry a pike is stupid
5) Can't trust anything a horse says.

[Patricia]

Lets stay on topic. In summation horses are currently unbalanced because:

1) There is no longer a ranged class that can keep calvary in line
2) The sound system is bogus
3) Horsies are too fast
4) Asking everyone to carry a pike is stupid
5) Can't trust anything a horse says.

2 bolts, 2 axes, 2-3 arrows are enough to kill my horse, I do agree with the sound system being bogus, I think the speed of horses are fine, hell they're slower than before I believe, also, you want something to keep horses in line and when you do you refuse to use it? Okay, nice logic.

"Hey, I know there's this pike thing that could totally save me from cavs, but fuck that, let's just whine on the forum and ask for a nerf like a stupid fuck because I can't play the game properly."

[Seawied]

The force-dropping of pikes makes them pretty undesirable. Surely you have noticed a great reduction in the number of pike-users, haven't you?

[Patricia]

The force-dropping of pikes makes them pretty undesirable. Surely you have noticed a great reduction in the number of pike-users, haven't you?

That's still a dumb reason to entirely overlook a great anti cav weapon, just because asking for a nerf and looking stupid on the forum is easier than using a weapon specifically made to fight cavs.

[Seawied]

The issue is that it takes half your weapon slots as well. Even if you kill the horse with a pike, its a piss poor weapon to be stuck with if you don't have a buddy to be with you. 1v1, you're dead. 1v anything, you're dead.

c-rpg took a pretty well balanced class setup, made horses faster and more manueverable,  deal more charge damage and made all the weapons that kill horses weaker. That should tell you something right there.

[Chagan_Arslan]

You might not see it from your horse but here, on Earth, things area bit different.

Sounds are deceiving: a horse can sound very close whereas it is actually far, and the opposite. A directional sound system is not reliable either, I hear undistinguished galops in the four speakers almost constantly (it is a native problem).

A rider can cross the map in, what, 20-30 secs. So even though you check your back clear, a cav can be onto you within a few seconds without being noticed. You just cannot keep watching all the time and if spotted, the rider just moves on to the next target. With 100+ people on a server, cav will always find unaware targets.

On the contrary, cav don't have to split their attention: they have nothing to watch for because, as the title says, they have no natural predators.

would it be wrong if i would say that natural predator of cav is the enemy cav ?
just like when archer sit on roof he doesnt have any natural predators outside other archers, no?

[Ginosaji]

The issue is that it takes half your weapon slots as well. Even if you kill the horse with a pike, its a piss poor weapon to be stuck with if you don't have a buddy to be with you. 1v1, you're dead. 1v anything, you're dead.

Then don't go alone or bring a 2nd weapon. You can pick up your pike after you've killed the rider anyway.

[PhantomZero]

Pikes are great at 1v1, I bet SpooKnasty could kill you in a 1v1 duel using his pike.

Their only vulnerability is ranged weapons.

[Magikarp]

Lets stay on topic. In summation horses are currently unbalanced because:

1) There is no longer a ranged class that can keep calvary in line
2) The sound system is bogus
3) Horsies are too fast
4) Asking everyone to carry a pike is stupid
5) Can't trust anything a horse says.

Don't trust horses! They lie! Only trust fishies!

(click to show/hide)

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First of all, speed has got nothing to do with us killing you, going too fast means we lose manouverability, which means we are more easily hit because we can't move out of weapons ranges that well anymore.
If you want better sound, than get yourself a surround sound headset, we can't do more than that to fix it.
Horses have more counters than just pikes, archers and crossbowmen for instance are very risky to engage when they are onto us.

You say we are unbalanced, yet don't give any valid arguments to back up your statement.

[La Makina]

Cav is faster, infantry just cannot escape
Swifter, very difficult to dodge their, with good rider/high maneuvrability even impossible.
Longest range (except pike, footie don't use anymore), no weapon outrange lances
Bump slash/bumpthrust make shields and downblock unreliable if not useless
Speed bonus entail 99% chance of unstakill
No whiff effect: the lance has no minimum range (on the contrary of polearms)
Spinning thrust (up to 90 degree)
When the horse is dead, the rider is still alive, he can even find another horse and ride again. Infantry has no second chance.
The supposedly awful slowliness of lances makes them stand in the "hit" position longer which is an advantage.

Want more?

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Cav is faster, infantry just cannot escape
Swifter, very difficult to dodge their, with good rider/high maneuvrability even impossible.
Longest range (except pike, footie don't use anymore), no weapon outrange lances
Bump slash/bumpthrust make shields and downblock unreliable if not useless
Speed bonus entail 99% chance of unstakill
No whiff effect: the lance has no minimum range (on the contrary of polearms)
Spinning thrust (up to 90 degree)
When the horse is dead, the rider is still alive, he can even find another horse and ride again. Infantry has no second chance.
The supposedly awful slowliness of lances makes them stand in the "hit" position longer which is an advantage.

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1. If Cav wasn't faster it wouldnt be Cav
2. Average athletics infantry that are aware will have easily enough time to dodge, though it is harder with the sarranid horse, in fact the cav will most likely back off if you notice them
3. heavy lance can be outranged by pike, war spear, awlpikes, bamboo spears
4. Bump slash is only effective if you are unintelligent enough to get bumped (see point 2)
5. Speed bonus also means that if you hit the cavalry as they charge it is also 99% chance they will get instakilled.
6. Only weapon with a minimum range is spears, we see pike users killing people a foot away from them
7. At a 90 degree turn it is even easier to dodge out of range as the only reason they have moved this far out is so they wont go straight through you meaning, you have a anti cav weapon or if not there will be no bump so block it
8. Horse is dead, rider is floored you should kill him at this time don't let him ride another horse... if you let him then he deserves a second go.
9. There is nothing advantageous about the slow heavy lance, hence we are now seeing so many 1h's and other lance users

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[Seawied]

Pikes are great at 1v1, I bet SpooKnasty could kill you in a 1v1 duel using his pike.

Their only vulnerability is ranged weapons.

I would disagree. They're slow, only have attack directions, and are very vulnerable to the facehug. I find them to be stupidly easy kills 1v1.

[Rumblood]

would it be wrong if i would say that natural predator of cav is the enemy cav ?
just like when archer sit on roof he doesnt have any natural predators outside other archers, no?

Yes. They don't go after them because it isn't very effective chasing each other around to maybe get 2 kills in a map when they could get 20.

Wrong. Xbow's never lose their aim reticule. They can sit forever perfectly aimed (this goes for your comment as well Banok). Archers can fire slightly faster unless using real archer bows like Warbow and Longbow, then the lower tier xbows are just as fast. Archers on rooftops are easy targets for an infantry with a xbow sidearm. Or enemy archers. As I pointed out above, unlike Archers who DO counter other Archers, Cavalry does NOT counter other Cavalry.

Pikes? Cavalry simply don't engage. You guys are holding on to the "pike counters cavalry" thing like people hold on to the global warming myth.

Throwers were the best counter to cavalry. They couldn't hit them at range, but when close up, they had enough damage to do the job and the cavalry couldn't simply turn away at the last second like when someone turns around with a pike. They were nerfed so badly that they are now useless and disappeared from game except for the griefers I've seen who like to team wound from a distance so they don't get caught.

[Rumblood]

The problem with the 90 degree turn thrust is that a ranged player can dodge behind a tree or rock, but the cavalry player can still turn to hit them while behind the obstacle, and even though they turned 90 degrees, they still get the instakill speed bonus even though it should be entirely negated at that point and realistically should have a chance of disarming the cavalry when their horse is going 45 km one direction, while their weapon is suddenly stuck in a target behind them.

[Magikarp]

(click to show/hide)

Yes. They don't go after them because it isn't very effective chasing each other around to maybe get 2 kills in a map when they could get 20.

Wrong. Xbow's never lose their aim reticule. They can sit forever perfectly aimed (this goes for your comment as well Banok). Archers can fire slightly faster unless using real archer bows like Warbow and Longbow, then the lower tier xbows are just as fast. Archers on rooftops are easy targets for an infantry with a xbow sidearm. Or enemy archers. As I pointed out above, unlike Archers who DO counter other Archers, Cavalry does NOT counter other Cavalry.

Pikes? Cavalry simply don't engage. You guys are holding on to the "pike counters cavalry" thing like people hold on to the global warming myth.

Throwers were the best counter to cavalry. They couldn't hit them at range, but when close up, they had enough damage to do the job and the cavalry couldn't simply turn away at the last second like when someone turns around with a pike. They were nerfed so badly that they are now useless and disappeared from game except for the griefers I've seen who like to team wound from a distance so they don't get caught.

(click to show/hide)

The problem with the 90 degree turn thrust is that a ranged player can dodge behind a tree or rock, but the cavalry player can still turn to hit them while behind the obstacle, and even though they turned 90 degrees, they still get the instakill speed bonus even though it should be entirely negated at that point and realistically should have a chance of disarming the cavalry when their horse is going 45 km one direction, while their weapon is suddenly stuck in a target behind them.

First of all, double posting is not allowed on any forum. Use the modify button instead.

Secondly, all ranged characters are more deadly to my efforts than a pike. A pike I can avoid, unless hes in the last group of enemies alive. Throwers simply were forced to go for more agility and thus more wpf, is that so bad? Everyone else has to, why can't you? Throwers are still a pain in the ass with their weapons, yesterday a teammate even tked me, at 50% damage, with a heavy throwing axe.

About your whole cavalry don't counter themselves argument, that's pretty invalid. Why wouldn't they be a counter to themselves?

Throwers were not the best counter, ever, archers and crossbowmen are.

You could even say that throwers were everyones counter, since they were so OP.

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