Author Topic: Polearms vs Two handers  (Read 11749 times)

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Offline Knitler

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2013, 05:54:57 pm »
0
he used an awlpike...

No i didnt oo" Look at the picture, i cant photoshop that good! :-D
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Offline Fartface

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #136 on: May 17, 2013, 06:01:36 pm »
+1
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both.
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Offline IG_Saint

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #137 on: May 17, 2013, 06:02:56 pm »
0
Oh shit, I didn't even look at the picture, sorry if I ruined your attempt to prove that 2hs are super overpowered, knitler  :lol:

Offline Teeth

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #138 on: May 17, 2013, 06:03:28 pm »
+1
Just curious, but how do you know this? I always assumed the balance team worked more on gut feeling than anything else.
Well, although the balancing is imperfect, they do in fact do very small tweaks to make sure that every class has different viable options, not just one weapon that is clearly the best. Like the things they did with 2h, I do not say that they were all good, but they seemed to be doing very small balance tweaks to balance strong weapons with other weapons. Imperfect as their efforts may be, the intention looks like tweaking to make every weapon comparably viable.

Just curious, but how do you know this? I always assumed the balance team worked more on gut feeling than anything else.

You make a persuasive argument teeth, but I'm still not completely convinced. I still disagree with talking about class balance from an individuals perspective. According to your scenario in a perfectly balanced cRPG the lances should perform equally well as the 2h cav weapons. In reality that just isn't the case, you'd presumably call this bad balance. I call this polearms having the advantage of weapon variety. Same thing with pikes/hoplites vs mauls. And that's why 2hs deserve the advantage of having the best dueling weapons. It's compensation for their lack of effectiveness in other areas. Sure that's doesn't help the guy with a poleaxe facing a greatsword, but that does help the class when it's not about an individual. As soon as you add more people to the equation it becomes balanced. 2hs have advantages in one area, polearms in others, averaging out to "balanced"

Your view of internal and class balance is certainly interesting and in a perfect world it might actually work. In reality it just has to many flaws to a be a practical approach to balancing. As an example how would you ever balance the lances vs 2h cav weapons? I can't see a way to ever achieve a good balance between those 2. In your view that's unbalanced, in my view it's fine as long as 2hs are compensated in some other area. It might be unbalanced from an individuals perspective, but not from a class (as in lot's of people) perspective.
Thanks for having read the wall of text attentively, appreciate it.

They way I described I think balance works is ideal which is not feasible to fully realise and there are actually exceptions, but I couldn't write that all out. I do indeed think that 2h should be as viable as lancer cav and so on. I disagree with you that when one class is strongest in a certain weapon type, it is okay because a different weapon type is weaker. I'd rather have all weapons to be equally viable. But I guess that is just a point we'll have to agree to disagree on.

Offline BenonKnight

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #139 on: May 17, 2013, 06:06:34 pm »
+2
You can discuss which of those are better but:
Why do you expect changes? You are saying that 2h is too good and pole power should be increased. There is easy solution. Switch your class to 2h. Your next argument is "Im playing for fun, i dont need best class". Thats great. Play worse, in your opinion, polearm class and be happy devs didnt buff it. Time for balancing starts when more than half players are playing same class. As long as all are classes are used, there is no need for balance even if some classes are "better" than others.
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Offline Fartface

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #140 on: May 17, 2013, 06:07:05 pm »
+2
Well, although the balancing is imperfect, they do in fact do very small tweaks to make sure that every class has different viable options, not just one weapon that is clearly the best. Like the things they did with 2h, I do not say that they were all good, but they seemed to be doing very small balance tweaks to balance strong weapons with other weapons. Imperfect as their efforts may be, the intention looks like tweaking to make every weapon comparably viable.
Thanks for having read the wall of text attentively, appreciate it.

They way I described I think balance works is ideal which is not feasible to fully realise and there are actually exceptions, but I couldn't write that all out. I do indeed think that 2h should be as viable as lancer cav and so on. I disagree with you that when one class is strongest in a certain weapon type, it is okay because a different weapon type is weaker. I'd rather have all weapons to be equally viable. But I guess that is just a point we'll have to agree to disagree on.
Agree to disagree sounds funny.
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Offline Tindel

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #141 on: May 17, 2013, 11:20:51 pm »
0
I still have to see a good 2h player say that 2h is OP.

Come on, someone?

Offline Patoson

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #142 on: May 17, 2013, 11:22:51 pm »
0
Because it was the most fucked up mechanic ever. It still annoys me that ranged weapons have it, but it was worse on polearms. For almost every second hit you could get a free hit to boot, that was impossible for the enemy to defend. How is that not bullshit? I loved either making one-shots to the face with my old long awlpike or hitting them once to the body and getting a free face stab afterwards, pretty much always grabbing a kill every time I made a hit. However, I was one of the first to admit how broken it was and I wanted it gone. It was overpowered.
+1

And the funny thing is it still exists!...................................................in EU DTV! :D

Back on topic, I agree with Panos on replacing great swords's stab for that of polearms. I've always used great swords and it just feels over-powered. Half-swording with them with some polearm wpf is fun and feels more natural, except for the fact that there's no overhead swing and the swing damage is ridiculous.

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #143 on: May 18, 2013, 12:31:18 am »
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Quite a bit of failed reasoning going on in this thread. Here's a little hint though, 2h will practically always be the most used because it's the most popular outside of video games. Why weren't there lightsabers mimicking other fighting styles until the 4th star wars movie(in order of release)? Because Holywood.
chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character

Offline Prpavi

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2013, 12:33:03 am »
0
Quite a bit of failed reasoning going on in this thread. Here's a little hint though, 2h will practically always be the most used because it's the most popular outside of video games. Why weren't there lightsabers mimicking other fighting styles until the 4th star wars movie(in order of release)? Because Holywood.

lol what?

how did we get to Star Wars and Hollywood in a nerf 2h topic.

gotta love these forums!
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #145 on: May 18, 2013, 12:34:25 am »
+1
lol what?

how did we get to Star Wars and Hollywood in a nerf 2h topic.

gotta love these forums!
Quite a bit of failed reasoning going on in this thread.
Oh man the irony.

Edit: I guess I should really spell things out for people. 2hers as a whole being more popular than polearms should be expected. The rational analysis would be that if there were ever more polearmers than two-handers, it would necessarily imply imbalance favoring poles.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 12:42:01 am by Tydeus »
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Offline owens

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #146 on: May 18, 2013, 01:19:24 am »
+1
^Tydeus I agree to an extent.

but.. We all know that 2H is a class that has very few counters. I will never approach an aware greatsword user on my horse. Hopliting against a longsword will never work and 2H gets fast, high damage knock down weapons. However I prefer polearm because I want to be able to hoplite, play lance cav and be a long bardiche beast on the one char. I also have to play a fair bit of DTV.

If i knew I was going to be playing in NA so much I would have gone longsword like 3rd gen all those years ago. Much easier with ping better and for duelling in AUS. 

A team of hoplites will probably lose the first round against a team of 2H but have the flexibility to adapt and will win the second round.


You wanted a good player to comment on 2H vs Polearm I am one.
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Offline peter_afca7

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #147 on: May 18, 2013, 01:39:44 am »
0
No i didnt oo" Look at the picture, i cant photoshop that good! :-D
pick up 2H make screen say you all did it with the 2H ....

Offline Prpavi

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #148 on: May 18, 2013, 01:57:43 am »
+7
Beware the false prophet!

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And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Panos

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Re: Polearms vs Two handers
« Reply #149 on: May 18, 2013, 02:01:46 am »
0
that banner is a fucking beast  :mrgreen:
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