So you think it is okay that a Danish is a better weapon than a Poleaxe (hypothetical scenario, calm your tits)
yea because shield breaker knockdown hores rear 0.7(0.9 when loomed) weight more and 6 dmg more on stab dosen't matter
but hey you right because "2hender" can pick up greate axe or barmace next round
btw poleaxe is one of the best weapon in the game and best for all around use in my opinion
Fuck Bobby, I even said that it was a hypothetical scenario, because I knew something was going to derp about it, and still.
You're using individual examples to make your argument for class balance, that just doesn't work. Of course it's not ok that a danish is better than a poleaxe because a poleaxe user can spawn with a long spear next round. But that situation is absolutely meaningless, because actual servers have a wide array of different classes and different weapons. Then the situation becomes greatswords, great maul, longsword/hbs and whatever 2h cav prefers to use vs poleaxes, GLA, bec, glaive, pikes, long maul, all the hoplite weapons and the lances. AKA best dueling weapons, best crushthrough and crappy cav weapons vs some rather good dueling weapons, best support weapons (by far), far beter 1h/shield choice, second best crushthrough (isn't saying much, but still) and the best cav weapons.
Yes, 2h wins in an individual situation. Pole has a huge advantage in a group situation (the ones were the game is actually balanced around).
Care to explain why it is flawed? Your example is flawed, simply because you again assume cRPG is balanced around one person. It isn't. You can't talk about class balance and then use 1 person as an example. 1 person just isn't a good representative of the class! Class balance is about the balance of the class vs the rest of the classes. You can't just take 1 person from each class, see how they match up to each and call it balanced/unbalanced based on that.
Balance is in fact based on what one individual can do with one weapon, this is weapon balance. Class balance is the same thing, but then bigger. I am just going to explain step by step how I think balancing is done and should be done and I wonder where I lose you.
Internal balanceImagine a perfect player, he plays the game perfectly with whatever class he plays with. This is the individual I talk about, he is representative for an entire class because he is the perfect player and therefore represents the maximum anyone would be able to do with a class. If this player plays a 100 rounds with a Poleaxe and then a 100 rounds with a Long Hafted Blade. These 100 rounds are on a battle server, not a duel server. So it is an individual, but who fights in a group versus another group, although talking about an individual, this does in fact include teamplay. An individual having to deal with everything battle has to offer, using either the Poleaxe or the Long Hafted Blade. If these weapons perform equally well, Poleaxe is balanced with the Long Hafted Blade. This is weapon balance, although an ideal scenario that is impossible to even get close to, I know for a fact that this is how it is done.
Let's say all (top tier) polearms perform equally well according to this scenario. Internal balance within the polearm class has been achieved, right? In this case a Longspear, would on average do as good as a Poleaxe, which would do as good as a GLB, and so on. All polearms would be balanced with eachother. Agreed?
Let's say all (top tier) 2h perform equally well in according to this scenario. Internal 2h balance has been achieved. Which means that a Danish would on average do as good as a Flamberge, a Great Maul and so on.
Class BalanceNow we move on to class balance. Having acquired at least a reasonable level of internal balance is required for discussions about class balance to have any use. Class balance is achieved when the internally balanced 2h, perform equally well as the internally balanced polearms. So Danish = Flamberge = Glaive = Poleaxe = Ashwood Pike = Miaodao = Longspear, effectivity wise. This is what class balance ideally is, which is again impossible to attain, but still what is attempted to attain.
Let's say the classes are unbalanced. Again, you can only talk about class balance if internal balance has atleast been achieved somewhat. Otherwise you can only discuss the balance between single weapons. So Danish = Flamberge = Longsword = Great Maul > Poleaxe = Longspear = GLB = War Spear. Which would mean that the 'polearm class' needs a buff. Which means that the internally balanced polearms, need either an overall class buff, by speeding up the polearm animations or something, or every polearm needs to get an individual buff, to not upset internal class balance.
This is simply what class balance is and this is how you would determine it. Which brings me back to my original statement that having a wide variety within polearm weapon types is not an argument for class balance. Class balance are the internal balances of one class compared to the internal balance of another class. You can only make use of
one weapon at all times. When I am using a Poleaxe I do not have access to the 230 length stab of a Longspear, the 35p stab of a Long Awlpike, the 46c of a GLB, the crushtrough of a Long Maul and so on. Which means a Poleaxe is as strong as the things the Poleaxe itself has to offer, not any stronger. Which means the Poleaxe in itself needs to be equal to Danish, a Longspear needs to be equal to a Flamberge and a Flamberge needs to be equal to a Danish.
So imagine 100 rounds of battle of equally skilled teams one team 100 2hs and the other 100 polearms, equal distribution among the teams of the 3 main classes, infantry, ranged and cav, would the win percentage be 50/50? Then it's balanced.This was your scenario for determining class balance. One look at the stats in the game and you would see that this is not how it is done in this game, or intended to be done. How would this even work? How would you play ranged with a 2h? How would you determine archer - 2h balance then. You can with my scenario. Secondly, this allows for great internal disbalance, and you have stated yourself that a Danish should be equal to a Poleaxe. This scenario does not reconcile internal balance and class balance, which simply makes it incorrect.
This is the best I can do, I hope you get why having a wide variety in weapon types within polearms is not a valid argument in a class balance thread, because I stand by my statement that it is not.
(All balance statements in this post were used for illustrating purposes only and do not reflect my actual opinion of the ingame balance, don't do it Bobby)
