A Great Debate: IF vs. WM -- What's your pick?

[Royans]

Does this thread even mean something?

[Prpavi]

always max out WM

[Kaelaen]

I used to go weapon master first, but these days if I do a standard 18/21 build I'll max out iron flesh over weapon master.  This is because I remember when FCC was a bit more active about a year or so ago and Cyranule hadn't respecced to archery yet.  He had 130 proficiency in two-hander (to have proficiency in polearms), used the slow as fuck sword of war, and people screamed at him for being a spammer despite using a build and equipment with terrible stats for spamming.  This was because he had good footwork, timing, and understanding of weapon ranges, things I feel are all very important skills to master and if anything maximizing weapon proficiency feels just as much a crutch as maximizing iron flesh to me.

Both are maxxed out on my main but whenever I make skip the funs I always have low wpf because I like being able to live despite the presence of ranged players and teammates.  Fuck teammate, including myself.

-idlewind

[Osiris]

I prefer IF for the simple fact that there are so many ranged it makes me RQ with no or very little IF


that said i never go under 3 wm and usually have 5

21-15 shielder 7IF 5 wm 18-18 6IF 5 wm so pretty close. only time i have 3 is for cav

[Torp]

I always max wm - and then i fill in if when i'm done, usually 1-3 points depending on my build, more if i go for high lvl (33-ish) builds.
I know the actual damage and speed increase is very small, but i like the feel of being faster, it improves my feinting, it lets me get those quick stabs in etc. - for me its a question of surviving another hit from the enemy or getting in another hit or two yourself due to the superior speed.... and in that case, i prefer being more 'aggressive'

[Rhaelys]

It's better to think about what people complain about more: Strength crutchers or Agility crutchers.

Oh wait, nobody EVER complains about Agility crutchers.

Why is that? Because Strength has access to Power Strike and Ironflesh, which directly improve the damage you deal and the damage you can take before dying. Agility has access to increased movement speed and marginally faster swings and slightly more damage, but still less compared to Power Strike.

Just remember folks, you can't swing your weapon faster if you're dead. Ironflesh directly increases your survivability, and thus allows you to swing your weapon at all.

For single prof melee only builds, Ironflesh first then Weapon Master. Also, no more than 8 skill points to attribute points conversions as Tydeus said.

[Kafein]

The very best players of the agility "school" are very tough to kill because they block everything, which can be damn annoying at times. You just don't see many of them because a decent player with a STR build will do just as good during your typical round. Also good skills is closer to a consequence of high agi than a cause. Agility has many advantages but they only become useful with a lot of game practice.

[MrChubbikins]

Does WM make that much of a difference? With 24 strength, 8 PS, and 111 WPF, you do 45 average dmg with a 30 cut 1-hand. Now with 154 WPF you do a whole 3 more dmg.

I don't see why anyone other than archers would use WM.

[Tanken]

The voting has done a 180, WM now surpasses IF. So, I suppose this thread does mean something.


Was not expecting it to turn around, will be interesting to check in on this periodically the next few days to see how the voting turns out once I'm sure most forum lurkers have seen it and cast their vote.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Bullshit and lies!

I still stand by my statement of clarification. It should say melee/nonhybrid only.

[Tanken]

Yes, I thought about that right around the 2nd page's time of arrival Tank. And I believe if I had specified then yes, the voting would probably be slightly different...but I gather from posts here that most players realize it is in reference to Melee. Perhaps just the looky-lous may bump WM's votes because they are ranged

[Rhaelys]

It just amazes me how people can vote for Weapon Master and yet complain about Strength crutchers (more specifically complaining about how people with high Strength have high damage output and high survivability - a direct result of having points in Power Strike and Ironflesh). It could also be that I'm deluded in the belief that Ironflesh is a superior skill, or that I'm simply NA scum.

[WITCHCRAFT]

Answer depends on your class. As a pure arbalest xbow (no melee wpf at all, just pure agi/ath/wm) I much prefered 10 WM to some WM and some IF. Run 'n gun someone then find cover to reload that arba as fast as humanly possible.

As a melee build (1h/shield, 2h, pole, pretty much everything) iron flesh is almost NEVER a bad investment. High HP stacks really well with high armor value that most melee prefer anyway. 2H and pole users can do quite well with high WM too. I sometimes like to set my STF character to a high wm and ath and duel with 2d polearms (halberd, english bill, those newer spear-variants). If you can combo quickly enough, two directions is all you need. Also hilarious for instantly guillotining horses and their riders after you rear them.

Of the two skills, I prefer high WM. In general I prefer speed-oriented builds and WM is all about that.

[Rhaelys]

Answer depends on your class. As a pure arbalest xbow (no melee wpf at all, just pure agi/ath/wm) I much prefered 10 WM to some WM and some IF. Run 'n gun someone then find cover to reload that arba as fast as humanly possible.

As a melee build (1h/shield, 2h, pole, pretty much everything) iron flesh is almost NEVER a bad investment. High HP stacks really well with high armor value that most melee prefer anyway. 2H and pole users can do quite well with high WM too. I sometimes like to set my STF character to a high wm and ath and duel with 2d polearms (halberd, english bill, those newer spear-variants). If you can combo quickly enough, two directions is all you need. Also hilarious for instantly guillotining horses and their riders after you rear them.

Of the two skills, I prefer high WM. In general I prefer speed-oriented builds and WM is all about that.

This topic is about dedicated melee only.

[Haboe]

Yes Vibe, it is, and I feel that the answer is going to vary between US and EU somewhat--so that's why I asked.

And how exactly were you gonna seperate them in the results?