the New tyranny of NA :evil:

[partyboy]

It's also worth considering that these groups are minorities everywhere on the internet. I promise you, being supremely strict on "offensive" language will not bring diversity to cRPG. The only thing it will do is drive existing players away. Sure, you consider that a good thing since those players are obvious "bigots" since they choose to use language interpreted by some as a slur.

The only girl I've ever heard directly insulted was Winterly, which was very sad yeah. She was all like "here!" during rollcall for a battle and people were like "LOL IS THAT A 12 YEAR OLD BOY?"

Yeah, that's fucked up. Winterly was really nice to everyone, a good player, and I enjoyed her company. Really good battle-buddy to have. I've been playing for a good amount of time, and being a gigantic nerd, I play a LOT. EVERYONE is called "whore, slut, etc". If those insults were reserved for women, that'd be one thing. They're simply general insults to the vast population.

You've got to understand that the reality is not that women, homosexuals, transexuals, or whatever alienated minority group are not driven away because certain words are used in-game. I wish that were the case, because then you'd be rightfully crusading. I love playing with all sorts. It's interesting to hear different viewpoints on all kinds of shit that I wouldn't normally hear. However, member of those minority groups simply NEVER SET FOOT IN THIS GAME.

The fact is, those minority groups simply do not play online video games in the numbers that white male nerds do. There's very little that we can do about it. They're simply uninterested.

You don't think maybe more people would've stuck around if they didn't find it to be a hostile or distasteful environment?

[oprah_winfrey]

You don't think maybe more people would've stuck around if they didn't find it to be a hostile or distasteful environment?

Welcome to the internet. If anything its worse in other games.

[Lt_Anders]

You don't think maybe more people would've stuck around if they didn't find it to be a hostile or distasteful environment?

We were running 3k unique CD keys back under Ecko's running of servers. So I would disagree with that. People leave because they don't find the game fun because there's 10k other games released to play, or it's to hard. Dealing with people in game is probably the lowest reason to quit.

This isn't IRL, that's a reason for quitting in real life jobs not often for ones in games.

[BADPLAYER_old2]

Hmm, I've got mixed feelings about this because cRPG has always been a safe place for these people to be themselves.

Every day they walk around in public keeping their true selves private from friends, family, coworkers and even girlfriends in a few cases because they know society generally looks down on homophobic/racist speech.  So many times during the day they probably want to casually use the n-word or call someone a "bundle of sticks" but can't without risking losing their job or being ostracized by their classmates.  Then they get home at night, pour a glass of chard and transport themselves to a fabulous medieval world where they can "come out of the closet" so to speak and chat with guys who are just like them.

It's too bad Gorath doesn't play cRPG anymore because it'd be interesting to hear his opinion on this subject.  He was an outspoken advocate of gay chat rights in medieval combat simulators and was frequently muted by the powers that be because of this.

Those poor racists and homophobes, how they have to keep in the closet because of "society"!

Won't someone think of them?

[Sandersson Jankins]

You seriously don't understand the difference between "I don't mean it when I say it" and a person who could have been bullied their entire life for it and may have had one or several traumatic experiences because of it.  If only there was a word for that (it's "privilege)".  And I'm not just talking about homophobia.  Look at sexual assault/rape stats.  Reported and estimated.  Ask a woman in your life how many times she is accosted on the streets or feels threatened and then told it's her fault.  It's not just a word in a vacuum, it's a constant assault and you're part of it.

I was considering writing a made-up story about this, but I decided it was too sinister.

Say I was called a nerd all throughout my public schooling. Say kids larger and more numerous than I pushed my head into the toilet while chanting NERD NERD NERD. Say I was bullied my ENTIRE public school career because I was a nerd. Shall we then punish people that say the word "nerd" because it brings up horrific memories and traumatises me?

Any noun or adjective can be used as an insult with proper context. Should we then censor all chat that could harm someone's feelings?
Shall we ban people that say "wow you're bad" because videogames are very important to someone and being called bad makes them feel like doo-doo?

Shall we ban people that use curse words because someone was raised in a very strict environment and experiences anxiety and negative emotion upon seeing certain four-letter words?

It's entirely unfair to take administrative action against someone for saying something that could be construed as offensive to a group of people, and refuse to take action for saying something that could be interpreted as offensive to a different group of people.

(click to show/hide)

btw im gay

You don't think maybe more people would've stuck around if they didn't find it to be a hostile or distasteful environment?

And no, I do not think that. This is NOT a hostile or distasteful environment. The only people I've ever seen claim offense to things that are said are

a) people complaining falsely in order to see some blood and get someone banned
b) people complaining about cute puppies and (oddly enough) Negga's name

I have never had access to "i" chat, so I don't know if people have been making complaints in private, but I cannot bring myself to think that there are people that are frightened to speak out over the internet, and I'm a pseudo-science (read; psychology) major. I know a thing or two about anxiety n' shit.

[CrazyCracka420]

I think most people have tough skin on the internet, what other people say has less meaning because you don't know them, and aren't face to face.   My daddy always taught me that you need to "consider the source".  If someone you don't know, or don't respect is talking shit to you, "consider the source".  Words have no power over you unless you let them. 

That being said, I do think when people are going out of their way to be belligerent or going on ad nauseum to try and piss someone off, it looks bad on the game to someone who's just started playing within the last day or two, and things like that can certainly turn people off to a new MP game.

I think it's enough to warn people, mute them, and give 24 hour bans if they can't play nice.  I think this pretty much falls under common sense of what should or should not be allowed, I don't think a strict "word list" is the way to go, just some human interpretation is good enough.

[partyboy]

The only girl I've ever heard directly insulted was Winterly, which was very sad yeah. She was all like "here!" during rollcall for a battle and people were like "LOL IS THAT A 12 YEAR OLD BOY?"

Yeah, that's fucked up. Winterly was really nice to everyone, a good player, and I enjoyed her company. Really good battle-buddy to have. I've been playing for a good amount of time, and being a gigantic nerd, I play a LOT. EVERYONE is called "whore, slut, etc". If those insults were reserved for women, that'd be one thing. They're simply general insults to the vast population.

I also just want to say it's easy to miss something that has been normalized that doesn't directly affect you, and I think you weren't here for the time nude pictures of a player were leaked.   The reaction of everyone was absolutely disgusting.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I think most people have tough skin on the internet, what other people say has less meaning because you don't know them, and aren't face to face.   My daddy always taught me that you need to "consider the source".  If someone you don't know, or don't respect is talking shit to you, "consider the source".  Words have no power over you unless you let them. 

That being said, I do think when people are going out of their way to be belligerent or going on ad nauseum to try and piss someone off, it looks bad on the game to someone who's just started playing within the last day or two, and things like that can certainly turn people off to a new MP game.

Huseby does make some good posts every now and again.

I do not defend people that use language considered offensive with the intent to evoke negative emotions in others. I also do not defend people that simply curse or use offensive language ad nauseum, seemingly to prove that they are able to.

I do defend people that use that language in order to evoke positive emotions in others, namely their friends.

It's not difficult to tell the two apart.

[Knute]

We were running 3k unique CD keys back under Ecko's running of servers. So I would disagree with that. People leave because they don't find the game fun because there's 10k other games released to play, or it's to hard. Dealing with people in game is probably the lowest reason to quit.

This isn't IRL, that's a reason for quitting in real life jobs not often for ones in games.

I don't know, there were probably quite a few people who initially tried crpg but were turned off by the unregulated chat going on.  Back in the fall 2010, weeknights on the NA community servers were pretty bad.

Edit: I remember shutting down the game a few times then taking a long break just because it was the same thing every night, so I can imagine others were doing the same.

[Aiyasha]

Say I was called a nerd all throughout my public schooling. Say kids larger and more numerous than I pushed my head into the toilet while chanting NERD NERD NERD. Say I was bullied my ENTIRE public school career because I was a nerd. Shall we then punish people that say the word "nerd" because it brings up horrific memories and traumatises me?

No, because only white males (cis scum) are called nerds, and they're a majority and have all the privilege so it's okay. Your analogy is a great example of the hypocrisy that is spawned whenever arguments like these arise.

Where is the line drawn? You can't pick and choose in situations like this without it becoming hypocritical.

[Lt_Anders]

I also just want to say it's easy to miss something that has been normalized that doesn't directly affect you, and I think you weren't here for the time nude pictures of a player were leaked.   The reaction of everyone was absolutely disgusting.

You talking about that classical/smooth blow up?

Never heard about that, but I have heard of some rather shitty "THIS IS YOU IRL" shit.

[oprah_winfrey]

You talking about that classical/smooth blow up?

Never heard about that, but I have heard of some rather shitty "THIS IS YOU IRL" shit.

No. He is talking about the Coy/Alkonai blow up.

[Shik]

No, because only white males (cis scum) are called nerds

This statement and analogy is so fucking stupid I don't even know where to start.

Privilege: the thread

[Lt_Anders]

No. He is talking about the Coy/Alkonai blow up.

Oh. Never heard of that and I guess I'm lucky.

[Aiyasha]

This statement and analogy is so fucking stupid I don't even know where to start.

Privilege: the thread

In other words, you're so enraged at how correct it is that you can't come up with a logical response. That's fine. Nobody ever can.

Let's all just take a moment to remember "you're an idiot" isn't an argument.