Did Hosp just Side in the Great NA War?

[Casimir]

So if this is WWI what's it going to take for the good ol' USA (AKA Tundra, land of Freedom) to get involved?

The whole of EU is going to wait until one party has a revolution then jump in and crush the guy who thought he was about to win.

[Commodore_Axephante]

Just like your avatar eh?

Read the rules, kids. This is an RP forum section!

So back to what matters:

BLOOD!!!

[kinngrimm]

Are those 2 Months over? If yes, you would have fallen back to neutrality as i haven't seen any other signed document. When that would be the case then, out of neutrality you always can be attacked or attack.
With a NAP out of my perspective there should be a 3 days grace period when broken, before you go to war afterwards, just to give the other side a chance to prepare a bit so that fiefs aren't undefended and only peasent battles would take place.

So if those 2 Months are over, which i haven'T checked yet, then Hosp wouldn't have done in diplomatic terms "bad" move and it wouldn't be counted against their trustworthyness. On the other hand if that 2 Months haven't been over then i would agree to "not not to be trusted lightly".

[Krosis]

Are those 2 Months over? If yes, you would have fallen back to neutrality as i haven't seen any other signed document. When that would be the case then, out of neutrality you always can be attacked or attack.
With a NAP out of my perspective there should be a 3 days grace period when broken, before you go to war afterwards, just to give the other side a chance to prepare a bit so that fiefs aren't undefended and only peasent battles would take place.

So if those 2 Months are over, which i haven'T checked yet, then Hosp wouldn't have done in diplomatic terms "bad" move and it wouldn't be counted against their trustworthyness. On the other hand if that 2 Months haven't been over then i would agree to "not not to be trusted lightly".

Yes those 2 months have been over for quite a while now.

[kinngrimm]

Yes those 2 months have been over for quite a while now.

k, as that is clear, to the question of fiefs.

A claim is just that, you claim something or anything, there is no implied right for you included.
You can claim the complet map, aslong you don't have the forces to make those claims reallity such a claim would be mute. Claiming only says, i want this and if you want this too, we may get into trouble.

So options

a) retreat from your claims, war may end
b) fight over your and Hosp claims, that would be war then and whoever can force his claims will be the owner of those fiefs.

Reasons for these actions:
now that can be tricky ^^ and i am not that deep in NA relations that i would know for sure, but from what i read here sofar and from what i read out of the map and was told over the game about NH and Hosp.
Hosp are the evil bad behaving arrogant bastards claiming too much being too big with lots of vassals or allies and overall they need to go down ... about right ;) ?
NH would be the proxy planted by TKoV and making most of their trade with TkoV, taking out a trading partner may be an indirect way to hurt someone else on the other end of the trade. Then there are the fiefs which Hospitaller originally owned and were taken from them when they were at war with many others already.

Overall with FCC and NH as opponents for Hosp it may become an intresting war, FCC and NH should be able to easily match Hosp numbers eco as well troops and gear. Only slight disadvantage FCC carries is the distance, but with the level of organization we have seen from them this aint a real issue.  If later on TkoV would have finished of Occitan and would join in there or perhaps would deliver troop/gold/gear support even before, this may bite Hosp in the ars pretty fast.

Good luck for both sides

[Aztek]

^^^^

I wouldn't say this move is going to result in biting us in the ass, it would only speed up the process. FCC and Tcov have been partners this entire strat and will not go against each other, And while LCO and us are not allied, we are friendly and know we are the pecking order. When Tkov invaded us NH jumped on our backs and took Tkovs scraps as they had no use for them, even after the nap agreement NH would threaten our trade caravans getting to close to their new land and were constantly hostile towards us. Only during the last few weeks did turboflex from NH become friendly but by that point there was just too much bad blood between us.

With FCC and Tkov being so big and having so many resources we knew it was only a matter of time until they came at us again, and figured NH would do the same thing and jump on us while they had the chance, and rather than forming the turtle roll which we were forced to do, being battered by all of NA for the first 3/4 of strat, we decided to try and go on the offensive while we have the chance. And give our members some retribution for the way they were treated at the beginning. We are not naive to think we are going to takeover NA, and we never had any interest to go out side of the steppe, we know the end will come for us but were going down swinging and on our terms. Rather than hiding inside our beach home waiting for the tittle wave to demolish it, were charging the beach running towards it and rather go out that way.

[Turboflex]

That's a story, sure.

[Aztek]

The brave NH men attacked a huge faction named Hospitaller all alone while they were the obvious underdog as they had no friends or allies to help, While the evil Hospitaller had the entire world on their side. Even with the odds stacked against them the Norse horde men defeated the weak and skill-less Hospitallers! Only after the brave men of NH marched armies away from their lands did the sneaky dogs from Hospitaller jump on them with out provocation!

Figured I would give you a story would like better?

Lets leave it up to the community to pick which is more in line with the truth.

(click to show/hide)

That was a joke for obvious reason, everyone has a side that they stick with even though each side over embellishes the facts to make them look better, while the other over exaggerates to make them look like the underdog to the evil opposer. Just get over it and enjoy the xp until FCC or Tkov sends you help, then you can gloat about how well you did in taking us out with their troops/gold.

[Relit]

Heres what actually happened. We attack you in the first war due to diplomatic insults sent our way. We cancelled all agreements as a result. NH then launched attacks at our three closest targets, Hospitaller only sent a single (1) army to oppose us. TKoV sent about twice as many troops as us into the region to help us. Weeks passed in which nobody on either side did anything. The war ended with a agreement, in which Hospitaller gave up all rights to Malayurg, Tash Kulun and Zagush.

After the war was over, random Hospitaller members decided it was okay to just waltz over our new border for trade. This was diplomatically solved. NH at no point sent a single guy over the border into your territory, or even approached it. Meanwhile Hospitaller sent several through our lands, and even positioned scouts directly on their side of the border to watch us.

What really makes the NH-Hospitaller conflict sad, is that we were allies last strat and had mutual defense agreements in place shortly after the start of this strat. Due to the actions of Hospitaller leadership relations fell and war resulted. This new war is a entirely different situation and has everything to do with "global strat politics", not just some random grudge match.

Edit: Nice spoiler Aztek, real classy. We did not plan on gloating, win or lose. Send Huesby in here, atleast he I can talk to like a adult.

[Turboflex]

You can spin as much propaganda as you want about old events but the current & more pertinent facts are that you broke the non aggression agreement / promises you approached me with about a month ago.

[Artyem]

You can spin as much propaganda as you want about old events but the current & more pertinent facts are that you broke the non aggression agreement / promises you approached me with about a month ago.

Digglez must have said something that hurt their feelings, probably about how they can't follow pacts or agreements properly.


Digglez will return, and with him he will bring the great Ragnarok, enjoy your time on this planet while you can.

[sdfjkln]

You can spin as much propaganda as you want about old events but the current & more pertinent facts are that you broke the non aggression agreement / promises you approached me with about a month ago.

Pacts, Agreements, Contracts, etc; only have credibility when their is an ability to enforce the agreement or penalize the people that break the agreement. The threat of VE is obviously what pushed them into whatever agreement they made, and now with VE's inability to enforce the agreement(busy in another war) they are longer bound by it.

[Aztek]

What pact did we break? that NAP ended months ago and as such we were simply neutral. There were no promises of being loving neighbours with smiles and candy. I went to Turboflex and stated that even tho they were at war with LCO and HP we were staying neutral, which we did. We did not send them troops/gear/gold or anything, much as how they (LCO) stayed out of the short lived Hosp Vs Remnant war. Those are the facts, why you keep saying there was some secret thing between is absurd. I wanted to be friendly with NH, and told you that Turbo, and although I have some weight in what happens it comes down to Peppo/Dev to make the call, which they did. Anyone on here that knows Digglez knows that he is set in his ways, and is very blunt and harsh and as such is hard to get along with.

I don't need to spin anything. I can tell our side of the story and you can tell yours. Its not my responsibility to convince anyone otherwise. The facts are NH attacked us first, regardless of the reason.. we are now attacking NH. All the crap aside those are the basic facts. This is strat, Its war, trade and diplomacy. We never had any pact that is still standing with NH or anyone else for that matter. Hospitaller are not allied with anyone but we do have friends that we will stick up for in the time of need, much as I would hope they would do the same.

As for these forum wars its getting annoying, I get Artyem, Kesh that that other Frisian Dura'something -1'ing any post I make as if they are trying to tarnish my reputation regardless if I'm posting on our diplomatic stance or what flavour of ice cream is the best. I try and stay somewhat respectable and open minded but you guys and your constant whining about not being fair when the tables are turned is childish at best when you do the same thing in turn when the opportunity arises.

Enjoy the xp, Fight back, turtle up, call or wait for help but at the end of the day when you shut your computer off nothing changes. They could wipe strat any second and would that really crush you? I would hope not.. So when your looking like your about to lose, remind your self its not real. We were getting battered at first so I know how frustrating it is, but seriously, get over it. Deal with it and move on.

[Turboflex]

What pact did we break? that NAP ended months ago and as such we were simply neutral. There were no promises of being loving neighbours with smiles and candy. I went to Turboflex and stated that even tho they were at war with LCO and HP we were staying neutral, which we did.

You said more than that and there were promises.  Now you're gonna claim it wasn't your clan's position? Kind of useless talking to you then.

[Relit]

Pacts, Agreements, Contracts, etc; only have credibility when their is an ability to enforce the agreement or penalize the people that break the agreement. The threat of VE is obviously what pushed them into whatever agreement they made, and now with VE's inability to enforce the agreement(busy in another war) they are longer bound by it.

This is completely backwards. If companies, governments, people enter into agreements and decide to just break it whenever they wish, noone would ever enter into such agreements in the first place. Just because Hospitaller broke the NAP and wont be "punished" for it, does not mean there are no consequences. I, personally, now know I can not trust anything their leadership says and will not enter into a agreement with them in the foreseeable future or will I even want to "hang out" with them casually if they are going to act like that. Trust between people is important.

And Aztek you said much more that what you are saying here in this forum. Promises were made and you just arbitrarily breaking them will forever sour my and others opinion of you and those you represent. Also nobody is upset we are losing. We are annoyed that you made a agreement with us, then broke it arbitrarily. How are we supposed to ever trust you or your clan again? In this strat or the next? What about other clans and yours? Can they trust you to hold your promises now after this?