Arrow Weight vs Arrow Count

[Smoothrich]

Its a balance measure to nerf kiting.  Or would archers prefer to have their Athletics cut in half again?

[Grumpy_Nic]

What about cutting IF to half because its too hard for archers to kill tincans?

What kinda logic is that, srsly. This is how people who specialize in something are rewarded

[oprah_winfrey]

What about cutting IF to half because its too hard for archers to kill tincans?

What kinda logic is that, srsly. This is how people who specialize in something are rewarded

Holding down the W key to run away from everything isn't a "specialty".

[bigsean]

Did the "all old archers do fine so its ok" argument come up yet? You can't argue wth obviously biased individuals

[Leshma]

Le wild Idlewild appears

[Smoothrich]

What about cutting IF to half because its too hard for archers to kill tincans?

What kinda logic is that, srsly. This is how people who specialize in something are rewarded

The logic is that kiting is horrible gameplay and archers were practically as fast as light cavalry when they started sprinting.  Missile weight increase was to reduce the overpowered kiting power and maybe encourage archers to melee more or be more vulnerable to infantry when they close the gap.  Archer damage, accuracy, all that was unaffected.  Just kiting speed.

It was something nearly everybody wanted to see implemented.  Kiting with insane speed is the opposite of fun.

[BattalGazi]

1) If arrow weight does only affect running speed, then what else has changed to nerf archery? Did they change the missile speed also? Also as a HA, I cannot turn my body on the horse as fast as I could once, what is the reason for that? How many possible ways are there to nerf archery damn it ...

2) I agree that kiting can be annoying for any other type of infantry but hey, you are wearing heavy armor and heavy equipment, how do you expect to catch a light armored archer with mainly wooden gear? You are excusing your natural disadvantage against ranged units to nerf them, this is both selfish and ridiculous.

(click to show/hide)

Would I be too pessimistic to think that many of the investors for the new game project invest in that because they are generally infantry and they want to have a game with only sword play?

[CrazyCracka420]

I disagree for balance purposes Gazi.

What is the main advantage to ranged classes (we'll use archer as an example)?  They can hit people from a distance who cannot otherwise hit them. 

If they are able to out run everyone who can't hit them unless they close the gap, there's really no counter to archers besides other archers.  Or just camp behind a tree/building until flags come up.

My suggestion would be to have archers have to restring their bow after running full speed.  So they can't just run, turn, fire, run, turn, fire.

Sure let em run away but they can't just turn and shoot at you as soon as they get a slight distance away.

[BattalGazi]

Or reduce the amount of their arrows + disable picking arrows from the ground. So every arrow should count ...

[OpenPalm]

disable picking arrows from the ground

Please never do this.

[WITCHCRAFT]

Let's just disable picking up any item. Don't want cheaters getting a +3 Poleaxe without paying the upkeep!

On a more serious note, I would like to see the speed nerf changed. I am more frustrated at the lack of short range mobility as an archer. I can't pull out a dagger and do some fancy footwork anymore, unless I drop my bow and arrows before engaging in melee. For me, the added weight has basically made my bow/arrows "Cannot be Sheathed" status.

But I'm a bad archer and I rarely kite when melee engages me. Swashbuckling or dagger fighting is a lot of fun!

[Smoothrich]

1) If arrow weight does only affect running speed, then what else has changed to nerf archery? Did they change the missile speed also? Also as a HA, I cannot turn my body on the horse as fast as I could once, what is the reason for that? How many possible ways are there to nerf archery damn it ...

2) I agree that kiting can be annoying for any other type of infantry but hey, you are wearing heavy armor and heavy equipment, how do you expect to catch a light armored archer with mainly wooden gear? You are excusing your natural disadvantage against ranged units to nerf them, this is both selfish and ridiculous.

Would I be too pessimistic to think that many of the investors for the new game project invest in that because they are generally infantry and they want to have a game with only sword play?

Arrows weighing more was the only recent nerf.  This applies to throwing, and crossbow bolts as well.  In fact I think there was a slight change in the PD/WPF formula to make higher PD builds more rewarding, but I'm not sure if they kept it in or not.

Heavy infantry are still much slower then archers, at least ones with maxed Athletics.  Pure archer builds with 3 or less Athletics used to still sprint twice as fast as any melee in medium armor, it was very lame. 

Archers can still kite and reposition between shots pretty easily.  They were just obscenely fast before.  There was a temporary change that halved Athletics based on your PD level or something of the sort, it was much more drastic and was reverted because it was too unpopular with archers.  So the balance team definitely isn't biased.

Also keep in mind as you get less and less arrows in your quivers your speed should start going up.  Weight is the total of every arrow, not just the quiver.  At least, that's what the main archer balancer, Shik, told me.

As for the new game, chadz and co have assured they are working on a new, deeper engine for archery and other ranged mechanics.  It sounds like it will be more difficult and skill-based then Warband currently is, but so will the melee fighting mechanics.  And probably be much more rewarding to play in the long run for both.

[Vibe]

ITT biased archers want kiting back so they can be invincible by being able to deal damage from range and run away from any danger

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Dezilagel]

Move to realism discussion.

[Prpavi]

heavier bows/xbos also arrows and bolts.

and PD (skill) to use xbow, 8ath xbowers need to disappear.