Cheating or No?

[Niemand]

Since when is this the decision of the community what a dev does with his program? Oo
He could ask for money for usage and it would still be alright. He could invite the whole ColdFrontAlliance or UIF and it would be alright.

You guys really just sound like jealous whiners that rage because their enemies are developing a plugin that can be used to make strat better... like we would betray you and cheat in a game.

Guys. Seriously. We got our honour, too. So, for example, wouldn't I purposely attack an NA-fief on their nighttime or use autoblock or aimbot or other shit. I used to cheat in D2LOD, Anno1602... and i stopped it, because it took away my pride about all achievements I made. And, believe it or not, I did NEVER use any cheats in Warband Singleplayer. (Yes, that really is true.)
So: This tool is not cheating, it is being developed for making your strategus better.

Btw: I would like a drag&drop-function for equipment-transferring. :O

[dynamike]

Can we remove Niemand from this community already?

[Hobb]

However, if the community as a whole decides that they don't want this to be allowed, I will accept this and outlaw usage of the data like this.

PS: this is no final decision yet, either way

From the perspective of a power hungry dictator in a communist strat faction, I sincerly do not want mechanics giving me the ability to see EVERYTHING all of my faction members can see. This just takes even more responsibility from the individual player, and gives more power to me, the dictator.

Yes there isnt direct automation, but when you have most of your clans phone #s, or other direct linkage to the persons, you are always minutes away from getting something done from one of your members who wouldnt do that action on his/her own. (This is half of what account-sharing does)

What I cannot do is hold my clan members hand and get him through a tough situation like avoiding an army without him/her getting ahold of me first. I wouldnt know to text/call this caravan of mine to quickmarch out of danger if he doesnt get on to see it first and ask me what to do. I cant see any armies approaching a fief I am not in, unless someone reports it to me who is in the area. (The other half of what account sharing does)

This is an unbelievable buff to any faction laid out similar to mine, and you would be taking responsibility from the majority of strat players, and giving more power to the small number of clan leaders.

If this is added/allowed of course we will use it, and you have no idea how much it will help my faction. And I completly agree and applaud you for encouraging people to enhance their own strat interface to benefit their faction, but this particular mechanic/feature is too much.

To me the website part of strat is so addicting and fun because its like playing a strategy game with your whole clan/community where everyone has to do their part to improve the well being of their clan. Anything that limits the "part," the role of individual clan members is a bad thing. I want my faction to be good at strat not because I was able to micro everthing for everyone, but because our faction as a whole stayed focused and organized and each person did their part.

[Turboflex]

I agree with Hobb.

I think this version of strat has done a lot more to involve individual members than strat 3 which is a good thing. Last strat everyone was a production bot in town, now they are instead basically encouraged to roam map and be productive as trader, scouts or bandits and people are a lot more interested in it. When a problem comes up tho, you just kind of gotta hope the guy can get through it cuz you can't micromanage him and that's part of a teamwork/multiplayer game.

A program that gives officers direct control over members is definitely a step backwards in this regards. It turns strat back towards a game where top officers micro everything and members turn back into bots. This is basically account sharing but through a finer mechanism. It really shouldn't be legal.

[kinngrimm]

Again the addon does not give you directly access,
The information shared is very limited(troop count, faction color, player name plus the last point of appearance after leaving spotting range which fades out over time)

The plan is to make this usable also through a diplomatic system as a carrot to get factions openly and wantingly to use the diplomatic system. By that then, the strat devs have a way to see who is working with whom and therefor could balance large alliances. The shared information would then but be even more deminshed, like no exact numbers on troop count only the size of the dot, no player name only the faction name and its color)

The balancing i mentioned in the paragraph befor, but can't be done by us, as those things are very much server side things which cant be influenced through a client side script as ours.

Yes i see that making it public from the getgo would have earned me less hustle and conspiracy accusations, still
from my work philosophy, believe it or not i don't quite give a shit, form my philosophy i want to deliver something what is mostly bug free. Atm 3/4 of the guys in my faction who use this tool have outdated versions which because of that don't share the information which this addon provides, if i would have been sooooo keen on getting everything possible and abusing the hell out of it, these guys woul certainly all have the latest version or i would have set a policy in my faction to regularly check and update it, didn't happen. The same problem do have most of the other factions who use it, so again this is still under heavy development and is not always working as it is supposed to work.

There are other known bugs, which render this tool, challenging, parties are shown twice on the map, not always the data is added at all, you would need to refresh or scroll in and out, ....


The reasons for not giving out all information at once and only to a selctive group of people, have nothing to do with not wanting others to have it but out of pragmatism and wanting to have a stable version first and then in the end perhaps get some claps on the shoulder for something we achieved for the community.

[Loki]

I trust software made by kinngrim as much as I trust kinngrim. Smells like an unfair advantage. Looks like cheating.

[Jarlek]

I have proof you guys used BUY SCRIPT in strat 2 and more (made by a russian clan we all know)

Oh man, we had BUY SCRPITS! Fuck me, why didn't anyone give me that? Because being able to buy stuff is, like, completely broken and OP, right? Right? Guys? Why are you all staring at me like that?

[Ulmarth]

Oh man, we had BUY SCRPITS! Fuck me, why didn't anyone give me that? Because being able to buy stuff is, like, completely broken and OP, right? Right? Guys? Why are you all staring at me like that?

Sorry was just thinkin u had a nice arse in that mail tunic ;)

[Thovex]

The thing is, I'm worried that a faction might be able to link themselves with other strat characters without them noticing, giving vision over an entire area using other clans characters.

[Blackzilla]

To be honest, I think the entire thread is biased already. Make a new thread imo.

It'll still be biased considering the majority of the people who use it are the only ones left on the EU strat map. :/

[Cosmos_Shielder]

Then again there was no reason to not mention it to the public and make this whole matter a bit less suspicious. Even if approved by devs, I use my own eyes to look on things. This thing gives you an advantage. Doesn't matter small or great advantage, it's still an advantage. Doesn't matter how long it has been in use, every day or week counts in Strategus. Fact is you (or rather, the Wolves) kept it silent to others.

Also if it was only intended for the devs as of now, why is it shared almost exclusively amongst eastern UIF ?

Since i was one of the first to get in this tools i may give you some accurate information guys :

Code: [Select]

    User name kinngrimm
    Player name Wolves_kinngrimm
    Faction Wolf Pack Mercenaries
    Creation date 30/10/12


Code: [Select]

    Name Les Trois Lys
    Description Les Trois Lys
    Leader airstrike
    Members 2
Statistics for Les Trois Lys

    Creation date 30/10/12
If we were in this tool to get advantage why didn't i invite more Pecores And trois Lys guys? Why didn't I use it to get what you call an unfair advantage? Well fuck off  because none of us did want to get any advantage. This tool is what a good strategus v2 should have. And only thing we did want is to debug it cause it had a lot of bug , of blank pages  ,  of login problem and we didn't people we can trust to do that. Anyway the Crpg Community is just shit and don't deserve this tool.
To summarize : Good guy guika try to develop a tool that he wants to be implanted in next strategus so everyone could use it. Guika and all his friends works to do this tool wich take a lot of time. Then Random Community member come in this topic to criticize people that has done work for the community.

Here some facts that the basic crpg player forgot.
-This Game is a Beta : that means that everyone should be working here to make the game better. No one cares about who will win this strategus since it will be wiped soon. Come on guys strategus has been wiped three time and pause for six months or more and you still thinks it's worth playing like assholes?
-This game has a lot of lacks and most of time that people invest in strategus is due to a bad client side game : How much time did you invest sorting your equipement . It took me almost 2 hour to split my equipement among 5 team mates. Come on Guys two damn Hours! It would have got me 20 € and bought me supply for one weeks if i was working at a job. So every tool or improvement in strategus should be welcomed and highly encouraged.
-If you didn't got my point well congratulation, as most of cRPG Player participating in this forum : you're an asshole.

[Cosmos_Shielder]

So what you're saying is, you dirty penis licker, is that you knew it was a third party software that gives you advantage, but you kept it to yourself and to your allies? And you're making it public now, because Thovex exposed it anyway?

But you don't care because ohhh noooo strat is fuckloads of micromanagement and then it's ok for you to use this.

How can one NOT view this as cheating?

Here are other information you

dirty penis licker

Code: [Select]

    User name harald
    Player name Mace
    Faction Test
    Creation date 03/11/12


Code: [Select]

    User name Fallen_Tomas
    Player name Fallen_Tomas
    Faction The Coalition
    Creation date 03/11/12


Code: [Select]

    User name Shik
    Player name Shik
    Faction hero_party
    Creation date 05/12/12
Well if you don't know this guys , they are member of Crpg Development staff crew. Or maybe you shut put off the shit blinding your eyes?

[Cosmos_Shielder]

First off, because others supposedly did it, it makes it ok for you to do it as well? As far as I know, revenge TK is bannable as well.

I'm not mad, I'm just accusing you of cheating, because you used a third party software that provided you with an advantage over your enemies, while you didn't provide this to everyone else as well. So you did have an advantage (even if a slight one) over those who didn't (supposedly) have such software, by using third party shit. Even if by some fucking weird miracle not condemned by the devs.

But you so conveniently made it public now that it was exposed anyway and 3/4 of the UIF quit strat.

Well Guika should be proud of having you call it a Software whereas when i begun testing it it was merely a pre pre pre alpha.
But Vibe it's common for people like you to try to explain their own medocrity.
The tools was kept in closed preprealpha 3weeks with developper inside in the very very first part of the testing . Then directly openned to nord and i don't think that Andswaru is helping developping the tool by making bug reports according to how he reacted in this topic. You know Vibe Guika and kinngrimm hired people trustworthy and likely to help by sending bug report in this tool. Not people like you only focusing about taking advantage on other people and not even thinking that this slight advantage has been only taken to improve the game and not to play with it

[Cosmos_Shielder]

I made my script public after using (and improving) it several times. So I used it before anyone else was using it. I admit as a cheater now too 

nothing to add

I trust software made by kinngrim as much as I trust kinngrim. Smells like an unfair advantage. Looks like cheating.

Looks like you took only 5 sec to think about it.
That wonderfull how people can give their opinion about something they don't even want to test. The pre-alpha is open now, but i hope that you guys will try to help debug it and not only think about taking advantage or not ;)

Yeah, but I published it, when it was finished not a half ready version of it. Making something like kinngrimm did with a database and stuff behind and having x ppl play around on it while its still in development is plainly useless.

And thats the difference which some of you might not understand.

Well it seems that dodnet didn't want to release his tool during beta so he could use it and get an unfair advantage unitl it get to final version. Ban Him (Irony Inside)

[kinngrimm]

Open Source

so feel free to browse the source code, client and server side code included. A Layout of the database will be included in a few minutes.