Star Citizen

[Xant]

I'm sure you wouldn't share any opinion that is in any way negative of RSI, but it does appear there are quite enough people that see this as a childish, petty reaction.

I'm sure you're gay, but where are you getting your "quite enough people" from? Let's see some statistics.

It takes a kind of motivated skepticism to think CIG not refunding people out of the kindness of their hearts anymore after that gesture of goodwill was being systematically abused is some kind of an evil thing. No game company gives refunds just because...

[Xant]

Yes, it's a donation. You don't get refunds on donations normally... and if they were handing them out, it wasn't because it's standard business practice or because they had to, but because they were being nice. They have no obligation to be "nice", and no logical reason to continue being nice when it's creating them a ton of hassle because of Derek Smart.

So these people are going "shut up and take my money, I know I'm not entitled to a refund", then crying about not getting a refund later.... take all my sympathies. Even if SC fails horribly, I consider it idiot tax.

[Kafein]

Yeah, have fun reading 50+ emails from a LLJK/Goon retard pretending to be respectful and then turning around and going LOL IM MAKING THIS PUBLIC HAHAHA in a classic LLJK fashion.
Because of Derek Smart. They WERE refunding everyone, but why would they continue letting Derek Smart's smear campaign bleed them money? He's the reason they stopped.

Yeah uhm really, the only person that sounds like a fruitcake in that whole thing is Sandi.

Isnt there a huge disclaimer when you sign up on kickstarter that no refunds can be guaranteed and that the product may change during development?

There have been cases of KS campaigns being attacked for scamming before. Missing a deadline by more than a year is a legitimate cause to start that.

[Xant]

Yeah uhm really, the only person that sounds like a fruitcake in that whole thing is Sandi.

I have no idea what "fruitcake" is supposed to mean, but if you think Beer didn't deserve his ban you didn't read it all or didn't understand what you were reading. Sandi does sound like an annoying twat in one or two of the emails, but I'll still give her props for trying to engage a customer on a personal level. That's all assuming the emails are real.

[Leshma]

Beer is a fruitcake himself, that's correct. Reason why he flipped out was because he was friend with one of their utterly useless community managers who got the boot, probably because he was friend with a Goon. Whenever I see some of their "public" figures get the boot I'm relieved because those people are mostly useless and easily replaceable. What bothers me when I see designers and programmers going for the greener pastures. Skilled ones aren't so easy to find.

Reality show open development was cute at first but they should get rid of it by now and focus their efforts on polishing their alpha into usable state. Sadly, it seems their community still wants those shows going because they are still paying subscription for it.

One thing is certain, with Sandi on the helm this game will never transform from P2W model to selling cosmetics to sustain development. Which means I'm not really interested to play even if they succeed, because it will be too expensive if you want to be competitive.

[Xant]

In tried and true Leshma fashion, wild speculation, assumptions and accusations with zero evidence.

[Lt_Anders]

Isnt there a huge disclaimer when you sign up on kickstarter that no refunds can be guaranteed and that the product may change during development?

I remember seeing something like that when i used kickstarter, you're basically gambling with any money you pledge and this is made abundantly clear to you when you pledge. If you go to a casino and lose £100 on roulette, will they give you a refund?

People gotta be smarter with their money.

Straight from the Kickstarter Terms of Use:
https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

    they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
    they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
    they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
    they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
    they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

[Xant]

Those terms have such massive loopholes that they might as well not exist. What happened with all the CLANG backers, did they get their money back? I think a couple dozen or so did, and there was no legal action or obligation there.

[Overdriven]

Those terms basically say it's fine to delay a project for as long as is needed if they provide regular updates.

So I don't see the problem. Anyone who thought this was going to be in a complete ready state with all that was promised inside a couple of years is a moron. As it is they have released playable aspects of the game. People who are asking for refunds are probably the same people who buy early access games on steam and then complain the game isn't any good and not complete.

[Kafein]

Anyone who thought this was going to be in a complete ready state with all that was promised inside a couple of years is a moron.

So, Chris is a moron?

I have no idea what "fruitcake" is supposed to mean, but if you think Beer didn't deserve his ban you didn't read it all or didn't understand what you were reading. Sandi does sound like an annoying twat in one or two of the emails, but I'll still give her props for trying to engage a customer on a personal level. That's all assuming the emails are real.

What did he do that warranted such action?

[Leshma]

Beer was very active on those god awful Star Citizen forums (something only crazy people can use), and kinda like me but on whole 'nother level he was spreading the faith of Star Citizen when most people weren't familiar with it. Most goons were strong supporters of Chris Roberts and Star Citizen but Beer was one their biggest fans.

Love between CIG and Beer came to an end when forums turned into complete cult where questioning anything CIG release as public statement is considered as heresy. God forbid you try to apply even basic logic and reasoning in analysis of their actions. Beer asked few tricky questions and wasn't taking bait like everybody else which turned him from CIG and community favorite to a villain. After that he got permabanned/muted/whatever. That was before Derek Smart came into a big picture.

Because Beer was/is one of rare Goon backers who still have money in Star Citizen, he focused his affliction on certain CIG employees he befriended. That probably cost CIG community manager his job, because when Smart was revealing inside info (he claims to have a mole inside CIG), Sandi according to Smart and that infamous letter started witch hunt inside the company in an attempt to find out who is leaking info. James Pugh, friend of Beer lost his job.

Let's put that aside for a moment, wanna ask you a question. Kafein, do you feel connected to Elite: Dangerous in a same way you are connected with wonderful world of Star Citizen?

[Kafein]

Let's put that aside for a moment, wanna ask you a question. Kafein, do you feel connected to Elite: Dangerous in a same way you are connected with wonderful world of Star Citizen?

I feel connected to neither of those. I mean, the PowerPlay thing in Elite is funny to roleplay a bit with, but the system itself is way too shallow and grindy, much like the rest of the game. Star Citizen has cool ship adverts, I'll give it that, but I stopped paying attention for far too long to feel connected with it, whatever that means. I invested a few dozen euros in each a very long time ago, sunk cost stopped being a factor.

[Leshma]

Wrong answer, try again: https://youtu.be/wPTeAK8ipmE?t=36m15s. Learn from your fellow Citizen.

[Xant]

So, Chris is a moron?

No, the scope expanded from what it was at first? It's a different game when you get 2 millions in funds and when you get 100+ millions in funds.

[Kafein]

No, the scope expanded from what it was at first? It's a different game when you get 2 millions in funds and when you get 100+ millions in funds.

Unfulfilled promises still. Didn't they say they were going to add stuff without changing the deadline?