Author Topic: 2h stab madness  (Read 6148 times)

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Offline Teeth

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2012, 08:44:59 pm »
+4
Also chambering 2h stab is relatively easy like all stabs.
Bullshit, the 2h stab is fubar now and there is no logical explanation for when to chamber. It hits either early or very late, making it a complete gamble to chamber. All stabs are weird like that now though, it's just that its most noticable on 2h cause they continously abuse it now. Apart from that you should not bring an argument that involves chambering to a balance discussion as 95% of the population doesn't do it. The other 5% rarely does it on battle.

2h stab is OP, the only ones who I saw disagree are 2h that use their stab and claim it's balanced because it has stab stun. Newsflash, so does the polearm stab, what does the polearm stab have going for it? That's right, nothing.

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What he said. 2h excels at everything.

Offline Corsair831

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2012, 09:05:23 pm »
+5
2h has always been easy mode noob class, but now it's 2h easy mode with super stab :/
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Offline Youhou

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2012, 09:12:22 pm »
-4
Those arguments are just retarded; pike is far more superior support weapon than great sword. I hope I dont' have to tell you Teeth reasons for that... Many things in this game are unrealistic so you can't go with realism line in everything.

Yeah I'm 2h user but you are long spear user and you approved last post acclaiming that long spear sucks. Probably most reason you can't chamber is your weapon (pike and long spear have some glitches like stabbing through people) because I don't have problems with it. I also have to deal with stabs like everyone else and some are better at it than others so yes I have to block them.

Polearms can get almost instastab if they know what they are doing but it doesn't apply to longspears and pikes. Also swing length from sides (especially right swing) is huge and they have great damage. So yeah polearm is viable class.

And reasons why flamberge is not so popular is: Huge repair costs, slow, get stuck in crowds really easy, easy tk + swinging inside is almost impossible.

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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2012, 09:30:45 pm »
+6
I find 2h stab one of the easiest things to block. People who have have problems with it are too eager to chamber or go for next attack or outrange it. Funny thing is that there is thrust stun which can give you free hit and one of my favourite tactics are running little back and going in when the animation is at its end causing nice glance and free hit. When I wasn't entirely used to stabs length I just held my downblock till enemy striked and I hear clink or changed attack direction. Also chambering 2h stab is relatively easy like all stabs.
I wonder why you use a danish gaysword, sure almost make it sound UP...
Those arguments are just retarded; pike is far more superior support weapon than great sword. I hope I dont' have to tell you Teeth reasons for that... Many things in this game are unrealistic so you can't go with realism line in everything.

Yeah I'm 2h user but you are long spear user and you approved last post acclaiming that long spear sucks. Probably most reason you can't chamber is your weapon (pike and long spear have some glitches like stabbing through people) because I don't have problems with it. I also have to deal with stabs like everyone else and some are better at it than others so yes I have to block them.
No teeth isn't.
Polearms can get almost instastab if they know what they are doing but it doesn't apply to longspears and pikes. Also swing length from sides (especially right swing) is huge and they have great damage. So yeah polearm is viable class.
2h can get 100% instant stab at facehug range on light armored guys due to being retardedly op.
And reasons why flamberge is not so popular is: Huge repair costs, slow, get stuck in crowds really easy, easy tk + swinging inside is almost impossible.
All those things applies to 50% of polearms so...

1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2012, 09:33:37 pm »
+2
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Offline Youhou

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2012, 09:57:27 pm »
0
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Well again every weapon get instastab on light targets. Polearm with skilled player gets on medium and higher grade armor targets too. And why use flamberge if you can get much better variety of polearm weapons. Also I just mentioned cons. No I am not making it underpowered, I'm just saying it's easy to down block because it's easiest block ingame.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2012, 10:12:34 pm »
+4
Actually Zlisch, I have been longspear abusing the past week.

Those arguments are just retarded; pike is far more superior support weapon than great sword. I hope I dont' have to tell you Teeth reasons for that...
Ofcourse it is. But the longspear has 86 speed, no overhead and is unbalanced as a trade off for being awesome in support. It's rather crap in a 1 vs 1. The German greatsword on the other hand. Gets a stab comparable to 170-180 length polearms, while having 4 excellent attack directions, 92 speed, it's not unbalanced and has awesome sideswing animations. It's arguably the best 1 vs 1 weapon and is pretty good in support aswell.

My main problem with the new 2h stab, is that it hits fast aswell as being fucking long range. Yes the polearm one hits fast aswell, but is not at all long range. 2h stab used to be slow, but long. Polearm stab used to be fast but short. Now 2h stab has it all. And I probably don't have to tell you how awesome having one attack that has +60 range is in team situations. Or even in a duel its amazing. You can always just chamber the stab and force your opponent to get in range as long as he has a below 160 range polearm or 1h.

Yeah I'm 2h user but you are long spear user and you approved last post acclaiming that long spear sucks. Probably most reason you can't chamber is your weapon (pike and long spear have some glitches like stabbing through people) because I don't have problems with it. I also have to deal with stabs like everyone else and some are better at it than others so yes I have to block them.
Nah, this experience comes from playing as a onehander aswell as playing with a german poleaxe. The chamber window of all stabs are pretty funky. You can't just rely on exactly meeting the incoming stab with t he chamber animation, cause the actual hit is way off when compared to the animation hit. Moreover, when I chamber a stab with a German Poleaxe overhead, they aren't actually stunned long enough most of the time and can just block.

Polearms can get almost instastab if they know what they are doing but it doesn't apply to longspears and pikes. Also swing length from sides (especially right swing) is huge and they have great damage. So yeah polearm is viable class.

And reasons why flamberge is not so popular is: Huge repair costs, slow, get stuck in crowds really easy, easy tk + swinging inside is almost impossible.
You need a polearm with about 135-140 range to have the same reach as a Danish and that is only with your rightswing and overhead. While he has that range with 3 of his attacks and ofcourse the almighty super ranged 2h stab. Not fantastic.

Another one of my issues with polearm/2h balance. Polearms get stuck much easier on objects and teammates. That makes a huge difference. Still I don't think polearms are that UP, its just that the 2h stab should not be able to hit that fast while having that range. It makes it way too strong, making every duel into a full on stabfest.

Greatswords have very little disadvantages, be honest.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2012, 10:38:19 pm »
+3
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fixed.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Jarlek

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2012, 12:01:44 am »
+3
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2012, 06:34:14 pm »
+3
The instastabs depend on STR and armor rating; with a balance 18-21 build I rarely if ever instastab (don't think I've ever done so after the changes), rather such attempts just bounce off impotently leaving one open for counter attack with the long stab stun and the hitbox has never felt smaller and more borked. You should try it for yourself a bit on an STF char, if you haven't already.

Certainly not saying 2h stabs are perfect in any way either, but as a 2hander I to the contrary notice 1h and polearm instastabbing and not 2h, rendered possible by an attack animation that pulls the character's arms farther behind him enabling a successful stab at much closer range than what is possible with a 2hander (at least with an AGI or balance build). I also don't see why polearms should suffer from environment and player collision more than 2h? After the new armor bouncing I get stuck everywhere with my GS, definitely not a very gangbang friendly weapon anymore. Interesting how things can look differently with different perspectives, always refreshing :)

Perhaps this is more a question of addressing strength's impact on the armor bounce formula?

Offline Shpritza

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2012, 06:45:37 pm »
-1
...u all whine to much, go play something else u whiners!   :wink:
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Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2012, 06:48:58 pm »
+3
...u all whine to much, go play something else u whiners!   :wink:
Say that in a cav nerf QQ thread and the people eat your head. Guaranteed :mrgreen:
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Offline Shpritza

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2012, 08:23:52 pm »
+2
Say that in a cav nerf QQ thread and the people eat your head. Guaranteed :mrgreen:

true story +1   :mrgreen:
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2012, 09:28:05 pm »
+1
Such an easy way to sum this thread up: Current item balance puts length above any other stat.

1h, 2h, and polearms can all hit extremely early in their release animation on thrusts(personally, I give the edge to polearms as they have the most damage which makes them more inclined to hit early without glancing). This is testable and easily proven, not much point arguing about which can hit the earliest when it's only a few milliseconds of difference.

I'm more interested in how weapon speed affects how early someone can hit. I'm willing to bet it has almost no affect on the length of time between clicking to attack, and landing the thrust. This is an issue as you're completely disregarding the stat which is supposed to govern the time between chambering your attack, and landing a hit. This isn't anything new though. This has been around forever. PS and weapon damage have always allowed you to turn into your opponents on horizontal swings to hit early in your animation without glancing.

I think it's about time this was addressed.
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Offline Thomek

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Re: 2h stab madness
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2012, 09:52:14 pm »
0
Like I've said since forever. Long weapons should be more unwieldy. They are simply so much better in battle..

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