Thoughts about marketing.

[22nd_deprav]

Yo friends !

First of all, I'm not really a "market guy"... my only interaction with it was trying to trade Mr_Fasole's MW javelins for him. And that's a shame ! I'd like to take part in the market and pay for some stuffs I want!

But here's the (my) issue > I'll never get enough money to buy 1 loom point. I've around 80k-100k gold, plus an equipement worth around 200k I think (I haz a shitload of stuffs) and a +2 nordic champion sword (that's the only loomed item I have).

I'll never get 500k or 600k, people who do not take part in the retiring game and just want to make a solid build -or don't have time to make their char again and again- are kind of excluded from the market because of the ridiculous evaluation of the loom point (or devaluation of the money ?).
What I'm trying to point out here is that there's no "natural value", only human mind fixes value.

I'm not trying to say people should gief their loom points for a bag of chips, but to bring the prices to a reasonnable and accessible level for people who don't race throught generations.
If we use the power of logic, the price of a loom point should approximatively be around the amount of gold you earn during a generation ; since that's kind of the only way to measure the "price of the time" you spent (or wasted, video games are wrong !) playing crpg. (and I don't think that's around 500k, maybe 100 or 150k, but I never really paid attention to it)

So yeah you wouldn't count in millions anymore, but it would be easier for sellers to find buyers, and it would be POSSIBLE for buyers to buy what they're looking for with a reasonnable period of gold grinding : the market wouldn't be a private club for wealthy crpg players and loom grinders anymore ;p

I might be completely wrong, but I think that kind of make sense.

[[ptx]]

Not going to happen, market balances itself.

[Micah]

Not going to happen, market balances itself.

^this

Spare your effort my friend, youre not the first nor will you be the last to address this point and yet nothing will change. And its also not the worst thing that it wont ^^

[Penitent]

The only way to get 500-600k is to sell a loom point.  Then you can buy a different +1 item for like 380k, and you made like 150k profit.

Then you do it again the next time you retire.  300k.
Then you sell the item you bought for 380k to someone else for 450k...now you're up to 370k.  THen retire again and sell a loom point for 520k.  Now you have 820k.  You can buy a +2, and possibly try to sell that higher....or wait till you retire again, sell loom point again, and buy a +3.

That's just one possible scenario.  But yeah, the only way to get lots of monies is to sell a loom point, or play for a long long long time.
I did it by playing the market back when it was new (a lot more active, no tax on transactions) and made lots of monies.  I'm gen7 but have like 10 gens worth of looms.  Didn't come easy or fast!  Bought low, sold high, made some deals on the side.

I think it's really hard to do that nowadays because the market moves so slow and because of the tax, but not impossible!

The tax made inflation stop (and somewhat reverse) but it made it harder for the little guys to make money.

[22nd_deprav]

I get what you mean PTX, but market can't balance itself alone, I won't make an essay on evolution again here, but a "living" system is changed and fixed by the things (people) who make it up.

If someone fixes the price for a thing at -lets say- 500k, people following will think "and why the hell should I get less money than him for the same thing, I'll fix the same price! oh wait, 10k less for the commercial aspect." It's a chain reaction again, and If it starts in the wrong way, it continues in the wrong way unless someone/something "regulates" it to make it accessible to the largest part and not only to the people fixing it.

I dunno how that's called but I'm pretty sure there's a fancy word from the economic sphere to describe that, some kind of speculation but on the same "commodity".
That's what enlarges the gape between different "classes" of people. People who've been retiring for a long time are the guys with shitload of gold, means they are the guys who can be active in the market and fix prices regarding their own amount of gold.

As Garison said it will get harder and harder for the "little guys" to have access to this kind of equipement, or people who play casualy. Everyone isn't a hardcore gamer around here ;p

[CrazyCracka420]

The reason looms sell for 450-500k (now, used to be higher before tax came about), is because people are willing to pay that much for them.  It's supply and demand.

If I have something, and sell it at a price of 450 units, if someone is willing to pay that much, than that's how much the item is worth.  If someone's only willing to pay 400 units, than that's how much the item is worth...

Some people play in very minimal equipment, so they make a ton of money playing the game.  I lose about 50k every 8 million experience because my gear is too high to sustain itself.  So using your logic, loom points should be given away and the seller should also throw in 50,000 gold to make up for what I've lost that gen

[Lichen]

Another 'please make things easy for me' topic? Nice.

[22nd_deprav]

The reason looms sell for 450-500k (now, used to be higher before tax came about), is because people are willing to pay that much for them.  It's supply and demand.

If I have something, and sell it at a price of 450 units, if someone is willing to pay that much, than that's how much the item is worth.  If someone's only willing to pay 400 units, than that's how much the item is worth...

But everyone would be willing to pay that if they could. The issue isn't willing it or not, the issue is being able to.
Of course I'd like to pay 450k for a loom point, but I -and I'm guessing, a lot of other players- don't have the possibility to pay that much gold, nor the time to play that much time to retire and accumulate generations.

That's what I'm pointing out, loom points can only circulate through the same hands/people.

_______________________________

"Another 'please make things easy for me' topic? Nice."

It's not really for me, I take myself as an exemple cause I know my ressources and that's easier to argue with concrete numbers.
I'm level 34 and my build's awesome, I don't really mind about looms and shit, and I could probably spend enough time retiring an alt and make a +3 sword, that would be all I'd like.

It's more for newcomers who'll get pwnd hard without any way to get real equipement but spending their nights grinding.
cRPG is an awesome mod, it should be fun for everyone, not only for the people who've been playing for ages.

[Penitent]

I think someone calculated that the gold earned for playing 1 gen is like 350k (not including upkeep...just the raw "value" of 1 gen).  Loom points started out going for around that amount, and slowly climbed up over months and months to a max of like 650k.  I took a break from playing then and was like "oh cool when I return to the game in like 3 months, I can sell my loom point for like 800k!"  I returned to find them back down in the 500-550k range.

[oprah_winfrey]

I would like a ferrari, but at 300,000 dollars I can't afford it. I think most people can't either. That is why I write ferrari a letter every week telling them that they should be 10,000-30,000 dollars because that is what most people have to spend on a car. I might be completely wrong, but I think that kind of make sense.

[Penitent]

But everyone would be willing to pay that if they could. The issue isn't willing it or not, the issue is being able to.
Of course I'd like to pay 450k for a loom point, but I -and I'm guessing, a lot of other players- don't have the possibility to pay that much gold, nor the time to play that much time to retire and accumulate generations.

Hmm, I think you are confusing the purpose of the market then.  If you have gold - buy loom points.  If you don't have gold - sell loom points.

Buying loom points pretty much only for high-gen players, lotto winners, market-playas, and other rich ppl with disposable income.  It's a waste of gold, honestly, but you get a loom fast.

Selling loom points is for the average joe, the guy that needs gold, or low gen players.  Once you sell enough loom points and get high gen, you are a richie rich and belong in the 1st category pretty much.

If you've chosen to stop retiring (I think I just retired for the last time too) then you are kind of taking yourself out of the market.  The gold and looms you have now are all you have to offer in the marketplace.  You will probably not be grinding hundrends of thousands of golds or aquiring new looms....unless you do so on an alt.

[oprah_winfrey]

Also, the amount of gold you make in a gen has no correlation to what looms should cost, because you do not make 350k when you retire, you make 350k + A LOOM POINT. I do not see understand why a loompoint has to be worth the same as the amount of money you make in a gen (- upkeep). That is like if you worked in a restaurant and got payed 4 dollars an hour, that your tips also have to be 4 dollars an hour.

[chadz]

The market is a game of it's own. No way we'll interfere with or regulate that (other than trying to create some gold sinks). You can play cRPG perfectly OK without joining the market.

[Eddy]

Also its realy easy to earn money, i make 200k in 5 days when i play in low equip armor.

[22nd_deprav]

Yes I'm already playing it perfectly ok without the market :3


But I'm fackin pro, noobs need heirloomed items or they'll just get 1 hitted and be disgusted quickly when they realize the amount of time they'll have to play to get something decent. And I want noobs to be pleased or we'll just see the same oldfaegz again and again (not that I don't like you all), but a game that discourages the newcomers is condamned to die at some points.


Also Oprah your analogy with ferrari is biased, ferrari cars are luxury, loom points are becoming some kind of primary ressource for the futur players.

Maybe I don't haz enough faith in newcomers, maybe they haz more courage than I think xD