Nerf Horsebump

[Haboe]

Lol, i remember, in those early Crpg days you are describing, a guy named bumppoop. Al he did was raising his shield and bump ppl, he did way above avarage. So what you say isnt correct In your defence i must say that it was a plated charger but still, bumping can be very effective to kill with, and you just say the multiple dramatic stories of monsterbumping so there is likely a core of truth in it ;)

[Leshma]

This still seems the most sensible thing said in this whole discussion...
Large, heavy horses, weight from 1,500 to 2,000 pounds (680 to 910 kg)... include armor to it and you will get 1000kg with ease... image the horse getting killed and you both fall on the ground... id say 50/50% chance that you got 1000 kg on you, on a battlefield that means death...

Ye a horsebump should hurt like hell (medium sized horse can still be around 500kg), but why would it be unfair to add falling damage when it gets killed?


Not sure why im posting this... its annoying if ppl start spamming fact like this... takes the fun out of the discussion...

But yea, i bet someone here can give me a reason why you shouldnt get damaged after you fall of a 1000kg horse.

There are two ways, realism or balance. I think that horse bump damage is too high when you look at the current balance where most melee classes have been nerfed, also ranged, after that change has been done (high bump damage). People who have over 50 armor shouldn't take more than 1 to 2 damage from light horses and up to 5 from armored horses. That's if you take balance into account.

If we're talking about realism then horses should do double bump damage and even ignore armor to some degree but also riders should take serious damage when dehorsed. That's from realism point of few.

I don't like the current situation. Want to see change, I don't care will they go for balance or realism.

[Haboe]

There are two ways, realism or balance. I think that horse bump damage is too high when you look at the current balance where most melee classes have been nerfed, also ranged, after that change has been done (high bump damage). People who have over 50 armor shouldn't take more than 1 to 2 damage from light horses and up to 5 from armored horses. That's if you take balance into account.

If we're talking about realism then horses should do double bump damage and even ignore armor to some degree but also riders should take serious damage when dehorsed. That's from realism point of few.

I don't like the current situation. Want to see change, I don't care will they go for balance or realism.

+1, cant see how someone could disagree with this but im sure someone will amaze me again ;)

[Penitent]

I think there should be a fall-damage adjustment.  If the horse is killed by a polearm (rears and dies) then the horse will fling the rider or fall on the rider and cause damage.

If the horse is killed by arrows or slashes, the animal slumps to the ground and causes no damage nor knocks the rider to the ground. (this happens irl, it's in paintings where knights fight from the back of a dead horse or standing over it after it has laid down and died.)

That would be realistic and add some depth to cav killing I think.

[Corsair831]

I remember when I first played native, a couple years ago.  It was my VERY first time, didn't even play single player except the tutorial.  I logged in to a TDM server and picked a cav class right away.  "Oh, this is going to be awesome!" I said to myself.  I got a hunter horse (destrier equivalent I think), spotted an enemy with a 2h weapon, and charged head-long towards him.

Believe it or not, the adrenaline was pumping already.  The sound of the pounding hooves and the feeling of speed racing towards the enemy was quite exciting.  I couldn't wait!  "I'm so going to run his ass over!  I can't believe he's just standing there!  LOL I'll make paste of this guy!!"  I was at top speed and couldn't wait to trample this dumb player into the ground and score my 1st kill.

He swung his sword and killed both me and my horse in 1 hit.
I thought it was a fluke and tried several more times.  Why can't my horse trample a player like...well...like a horse would trample a man?  Finally I gave up.  "Cav is kinda shitty, isn't it?"  I asked.  "yeah" they said.

Just a couple months later I started Crpg, and I have been ever since.  Cav is a little better here.  Still dies easily and has to be played smartly if you don't want to be de-horsed while you blink.  You still can't approach infantry head on unless they have a 1h weapon. 

I've played cav 4 gens.  The ONLY 2 good uses for bumping is to mess up enemy players that are engaged in melee so your team-mates can kill them, or stagger players that are about to slash/stab the shit out of you and your horse.  If you try to use it to actually damage or kill enemy players, you are doing it wrong.  Good luck with that.  As a consolation, it causes a bit of damage if you miss your target.  It's a delay/frustrate tool, not a damage dealing tool.

Just thought I'd share.

cavalry in native is perfectly well balanced, i have no idea why they decided to change it in crpg.

and btw, I have played also 4 gens of cav on my alt "the responsible cow", and i tell you, whenever i see an archer in the field i make a point to run him over, and remember who i have run over so i can return and 2 shot bump them a second later. Honestly, if i see anyone below 30 armour ish i know i can kill them in 3 bumps. It's completely retarded.

I'm not joking when i say i get at least 50% of my kills through the bump, and they're all cheap.

It takes no no skill to fail my lance and bump some one over, and yet i still kill them. lol. I have failed, and yet i'm still rewarded. Crazy game.

[polkafranzi]

cavalry in native is perfectly well balanced, i have no idea why they decided to change it in crpg.

and btw, I have played also 4 gens of cav on my alt "the responsible cow", and i tell you, whenever i see an archer in the field i make a point to run him over, and remember who i have run over so i can return and 2 shot bump them a second later. Honestly, if i see anyone below 30 armour ish i know i can kill them in 3 bumps. It's completely retarded.

I'm not joking when i say i get at least 50% of my kills through the bump, and they're all cheap.

It takes no no skill to fail my lance and bump some one over, and yet i still kill them. lol. I have failed, and yet i'm still rewarded. Crazy game.

Well of course if you only go for people in below 30 armorish you will get a lot of bump kills.

Who cares that they're cheap, why are you bitching about your own play style 

I'm sorry, I must be missing the point here.

I've played 20 gens of cav, and if I play battle sometimes don't spawn rape/go for archers in low armor.  The best thing to help team is to take out high profile players or other cavs.

Jeez.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

NERF CAV NERF CAV NERF CAV

THEY'RE SO OP!!!!

[Corsair831]

Well of course if you only go for people in below 30 armorish you will get a lot of bump kills.

Who cares that they're cheap, why are you bitching about your own play style 

I'm sorry, I must be missing the point here.

I've played 20 gens of cav, and if I play battle sometimes don't spawn rape/go for archers in low armor.  The best thing to help team is to take out high profile players or other cavs.

Jeez.

i'm saying that, when i play cavalry, i could use skill and try to hit a lance, but instead of that it is so much easier for me to use literally 0 skill and bump my enemies to death. bumping is just a bad joke as it is now.

[bruce]

i have no idea why they decided to change it in crpg.

Well, I'll explain. In the first iterations of crpg (before wipe), cavalry had:
- less HP then now (unarmoured horses were mostly at 75-80ish hp, now much better with heirlooming)
- effectively much less HP, because archers back in the day had more then double the damage than now with double the rate of fire, and sniper crossbows were 120 pierce, arrow speeds and accuracy of archers was much higher (it was archers, back in the day, owning any open battle with 35-1). Throwing was also much more effective.
- much smaller charge values (you would get slowed noticeably by bumping into infantrymen, at slower speed a infantryman could stop your horse by moving in front of it)
- virtually no bump damage
- less speed and maneuver

You can imagine there were few cavalrymen; some people (two people) on a sarranid horse, using a lance, did well. Normal, less agile horses were much harder to use, partially because outside of a clean backstab people could just jump into the horse to avoid being hit by your weapon.

Now the balance has swung a bit too much, imo; while the old days of "haha I oneshot your horse across the map" archery won't be missed, the current tankyness makes it all too easy. There are no "oh crap archers spotted me" moments in crpg, which was why in the old days few people did ride horses at all. There's no "oh crap crossbow tuuurn", because now a +3 courser has 40-50% left after an arbalest bolt in the flank. I have one.

Naturally, with their realistic (and gameplay) counter removed, horses are everywhere, because even someone with a great lance, shield and peasant gear, on a good horse, will find some busy infantryman or archer to kill.

Charge damage should stay, really. If a horse is running at you, you have no anti-horse weapons, you have no ranged weapons, you should not be able to just maneuver so you get hit by horse instead of weapon to avoid all damage. However, anti-horse weapons, which includes all ranged weapons and spears and all long weapons should kill horses much easier (which is both realistic and balanced). When you hit someone with a lance (esp. heirloomed) they die right off, it makes no sense whatsoever, from either realism or gameplay, that when you run into a spear, that your horse lives. An unarmoured horse should not ever be able to ride while looking like a pincushion, either, destrier or no.

Halve the HP and half the horsemen will go play some easier class.

[Oberyn]

I'm not joking when i say i get at least 50% of my kills through the bump, and they're all cheap.

This is supposed to support your argument? What's the name of your cav char?

[Kafein]

How much armor is "armor"?

As I've already said I have 57 body armor and that isn't low armor, yet I loose between 10-20% HP (65 HP) per bump. That's quite a bit of damage if you ask me.

The infamous "trot bump" to help teammates/get a bumpshot is hard to dodge but can't cause that much damage.

That's either a high speed bump or a bump from a very heavy horse. In any case, horses at higher speeds are easier to dodge if you don't mess up your timing. And heavy horses, well, they are made for that and have other problems.

This is supposed to support your argument? What's the name of your cav char?

He probably kills one guy every 3 round or so.

Well actually when I see The_Responsible_Cow playing I understand his whole playstyle revolves around tanking hits with his warhorse and getting bumpkills on mediocre archers (also, couch lancing my horse but that's another story ). You can get a few kills that way but you are still extremely weak in duel against anyone either with a melee weapon or capable of killing your horse with projectiles.

All types of ninjas will get a few stealth kills because it's their nature. The equipment matters very little.

[Malaclypse]

Add: Charge damage also damages horse somewhat. Encourages hits without bumps.

[bruce]

The bumping whining is absurd, it was introduced to counter cheap tricks more then anything. Again, if you are out in the open, no ranged, no 2h, no polearm, can't dodge, don't have a stabbing 1h, well, then dafuq, no, jumping into the horse should not be your "do not receive any damage free card", nor it should be "let's see if I can damage the horse by bumping it with my head".

I find it hard to believe that nobody has a problem with a horse charging into a spear or such and being able to turn around / walk away, but you do have a problem with bump damage?

Seriously?

[//saxon]

yes im playing archer atm and ive been bumped for 100% of my hp(1hit) twice. This was by a Courser and a destrier, i know i know im playing archer but i couldn't do shit because even if i try and dodge it still hit me and killed me and im lvl 30.

the thing that really pisses me off with cav is the bump downs, a horse bumps me down:

When its walking(has happened to me)
When its jogging up HILL(has happened to me)
Even killed me while going up hill for like 60%
Arabian can bump down while walking.

yes cav might be expensive but that is the ONLY disadvantage they have with their class. But oh no you sell ONE loom point and you can use anything for like 2 months if you use it all on repairs.

so they pay alot to get kills if they need to pay that price to get kills its their choice.

AND remember guys! Lance always hits FIRST! no matter what.

[polkafranzi]

AND remember guys! Lance always hits FIRST! no matter what.

Dunno what game you're playing, but it's certainly not M&B Warband cRPG.