Nerf Horsebump

[bruce]

No, lances don't always hit first.

Spears used together with shield do; the only way to try to outrange them is to couch/stab at max side angle and hope the spearman doesn't move. Frontal couch ends up with horse impaled on the spear (sadly, this often does not kill the horse), as does frontal stab. Pikes also work, naturally. Long 2hs often work. The only problematic part is that horses can fairly often survive impaling themselves on a polearm and run away; in light of the fact that an infantryman won't survive a lance stab/couch, it's neither balanced nor realistic really.

Other than that, ranged hits first, although again - horses can tank too much ranged fire, that I would agree.

However, if you are an archer, you have not managed to shoot the horse/horseman before they got close, are out of range of any support, you are surrounded by more then one horseman, and you don't have a decent melee weapon but rather 2 quivers of arrows + 0-slot weapon then... yes, you are fucked unless you can get to cover quickly. That is similar to 2h whines about being shot by arrows. You don't have a shield and are in the open, what do you expect?

[Corsair831]

The bumping whining is absurd, it was introduced to counter cheap tricks more then anything. Again, if you are out in the open, no ranged, no 2h, no polearm, can't dodge, don't have a stabbing 1h, well, then dafuq, no, jumping into the horse should not be your "do not receive any damage free card", nor it should be "let's see if I can damage the horse by bumping it with my head".

I find it hard to believe that nobody has a problem with a horse charging into a spear or such and being able to turn around / walk away, but you do have a problem with bump damage?

Seriously?

it's not my fault you dont know how to play warband. If you played any native cav at all you'd know that taking a lone infantryman is actually incredibly easy by something called "bumplancing" and "bumpslashing".

 Basically you go slower than full speed, make sure your HORSE hits him, rather than your lance, whilst going slow, pull the lance about a half a second before your horse hits, and it's a guaranteed lance kill. Similar thing with the sword, only he has no chance to dodge left and right because you're swinging left and right.

 If a cavalry is too noob not to take a sword to compliment their 300WPF MW super heavy lance (of death/fire +3), then they shouldn't be excused for this by being able to fail all their super easy lances and bump the enemy, they should fail and fail and fail and fail until they learn to play, get some skill, and actually start getting kills off their own back rather than because of a dumb game mechanic.

[polkafranzi]

Frontal couch ends up with horse impaled on the spear (sadly, this often does not kill the horse), as does frontal stab. Pikes also work, naturally. Long 2hs often work. The only problematic part is that horses can fairly often survive impaling themselves on a polearm and run away; in light of the fact that an infantryman won't survive a lance stab/couch, it's neither balanced nor realistic really.

So you want spears to 1 hit horses every time?  Cool balancing idea, they should put you on the development team.

Ever heard of, or seen the horse rearing animation that polearms have, that in itself is a free shot or 2 for any nearby infantry or ranged against the defenseless horse/rider, just aim for the damn legs and the horse will go down, the rider is in that "de-horsed" stage where you can again get a free shot in/kick him and get another free hit.

Like the guy above, you must be playing a different game.

[Leshma]

The infamous "trot bump" to help teammates/get a bumpshot is hard to dodge but can't cause that much damage.

That's either a high speed bump or a bump from a very heavy horse. In any case, horses at higher speeds are easier to dodge if you don't mess up your timing. And heavy horses, well, they are made for that and have other problems.

First bump was from Kastamonulu's Champion Cata Horse which is heavy horse. However that horse was straying around and since I play without sound I had no idea that horse is behind me. It wasn't even galloping, it was actually moving very slow. Bumped me from behind and took my last 15% of HP. No one controlled that horse and no one called for him, horse did that to me on it's own. Happened two days ago. Whole server laughed at that

Second situation is when I was trying to kill the riders but some archer killed him, his horse went nuts and bumped me with full speed and that's how I lost 10-15% of my HP and died. Horse in question was Champion Arabian. I don't think that cav is skilled enough to know that he can control the horse few seconds after he dies so that's another death to a damn stray horse. Happened yesterday.

On average light horses (loomed) deal 10-20% damage to me when going full speed per bump, heavy horses do the same but they don't need to move fast at all. As I said, I have 57 body armor and 65 HP.

I'm aware that in old cRPG bump damage was even higher then now but many things were a lot different back then (34 pierce stab on Sword of Tears). I liked when horses dealt little to no damage per bump and that lasted for 10 months I think.

Then came cav maneuver and speed nerf (which I've suggested and it made perfect sense because before that nerf most cav had 50-1 and higher scores). To compensate chadz decided to make horses a bit more realistic, therefore he buffed bump damage and couch damage A LOT but nerfed horse stats.

Since then many changes were made, many things nerfed but cav pretty much stayed the same. Either make cavalry more realistic (like I suggested) or nerf horse bump damage to compensate for many inf and ranged nerfs that happened in the mean time. Realistic change make perfect sense, however like every other realistic change it will force people to play even more cautious (even more backstabbing), so that's a double edged sword I'm afraid.

Before all cav come here crying how they were nerfed for 100 times, I'll just remind them while what they are saying is true, it's also true that cavalry wasn't nerfed for 7 or 8 months.

[bruce]

If you try to intentionally bump someone aware, he can attack your horse, even with a 1h. Harder to do with short weapons, and vs agile horses, but duh.

The thing is, nerf bumping, and you still don't change a damn thing. You can easily get kills by just using a great lance and pressing WWWWWWX; as long as you do not play like a total tard you will net a few kills that way. Grab a fast horse, prey on unaware people, simple really. As long as it is hard to shoot horses down before they get to do this, it will be the easiest class to play.

The only time where cavalry was not very common in CRPG was when horses were killed (especially, shot, but also stabbed/slashed as well) far more easily, which made it overall a bit too frustrating for many people to play on horseback. Making them have less HP is both a realistic and game-balancing change.

[Chagan_Arslan]

just remove couch and nerf bump damage so that inf can hold downblock and trololol all lancers already

[Miwiw]

just remove couch and nerf bump damage so that inf can hold downblock and trololol all lancers already

Sounds as a suggestion to nerf lancers a bit, but HAs and 1h cavs will be happy about that.

[CrazyCracka420]

You can start discussing nerfing horse bumps when you give me the option to dismount when my horse is still moving with an actual button I can press.  if I come to a stop and there's a weapon on the ground under my horse, I can't dismount, I pick up the weapon.  Not to mention you have to wait almost a full second to dismount when your horse has already come to a complete stop. 

I took screenshots yesterday with a light lance and it's funny how if I'm extended as far out to my right as I can do, and look down, my lance goes through my characters leg.

This game is very well balanced at this point, and I'd prefer if they disbanded the balance team (so the dev's can stop cleaning up your messes).  The OP just sounds like a whiney bitch who needs to learn how to play.

Here's a revelation, run around in groups of people with different classes.  You can compliment each other.  I know it's a lot to ask,  but even if you form up into very crude/ghetto formations, you can easily stop cavalry from preying on you. 

The only reason cavalry is "OP" in your scenario is because you're terrible at being infantry and terrible at using teamwork.  That's not my horses fault.

More suggestions if you want to nerf horse bump.  Make it so my horses corpse (that 800-1200 pound hunk of muscle and bone) flying into you causes damage.  I'm all for me taking damage when my horse dies and I'm flying into the ground, but when my horse runs into you at full speed you get knocked unconscious or die outright.  Also give us more of a lance angle, being unable to stab farther out to the right than my foot seems a bit ridiculous.

Some of you have obviously never stood next to a horse before.  And I say this as a 6'3" 230 pound person.

[Gurnisson]

but when my horse runs into you at full speed you get knocked unconscious or die outright.

Sounds like true balance

[CrazyCracka420]

I'm saying if you want to nerf cav, then implement some other changes as well.

I'd prefer if people stop whining and realized the game is very well balanced.  Cavalry isn't overpowered, bring a fucking lance and stop bitching.  Or stop being all alone on the battlefield expecting to be able to kill anything that comes at you.  Rock/Paper/Scissors.

And the few times I've seen infantry get into formations cavalry has been able to do nothing but circle around like vultures waiting for an opportunity. 

I only ever have 18 strength, no IF, and at most 43 body armor, and horse bumps never seem like an issue for me.  I'm never worried about how much damage they will do, just worried about being knocked to the ground.

You people need to stop bitching so much, cavalry (and every class in the game) has counters to it, it's not cavalry's fault you're too retarded to use tactics, teamplay, or common sense.

[San]

The amount of things I can get away with whenever I'm on a horse is pretty ridiculous, from my experience. I think bumps/knockdown should require higher speeds than they do now. 30% damage to the rider when dehorsed is also good, because if the pikeman/ archer can't kill the rider once dehorsed, they are in serious danger and it was better not to dehorse at all.

People have glanced, missed, or did miniscule amounts of damage to me on the ground a good number of times when I was dehorsed, and most of the time the assailants ended up dead since cav is still good in melee. The 30%(maybe even more?) would be good to make up for times when the rider's position on the ground doesn't sync with his actual position, glitching inside walls, etc. It will help ranged fight cav with shield, too.

[CrazyCracka420]

You're right, common sense isn't very common.  If it was you'd realize you can easily counter cavalry by either carrying a long spear/pike (or really any polearm lance over 150 length, I rear horses all the time as a level 1 peasant with a pitch fork), or run around in larger groups that include polearms and ranged.  Horses get destroyed against even a group of 2 people using 2h's if they are working as a team.  Even if I bump or lance the first guy, the second guy gets a free hit on me and my horse. 

Try using some common sense before bitching about something being overpowered.   Or better yet, explain how you're helpless to counter horses, because they are overpowered.  This should be good.

I'm all for adding damage when you're dismounted, but then they should also make it so you can dismount when moving (you would take damage if it's moving over a certain speed) and also this would make it possible to dismount when I'm staring at a weapon on the ground.  And if you're going to give damage to the rider on the fall, add damage to people when my 1000+ pound horse's corpse, riding at full speed flies into you. 

Horses are easily counter-able, and I still suggest people QQ'ing go and stand next to a horse and real life.  That thing would murder you if it ran into you.  And if you were wearing a set of full plate you'd still probably have a concussion or be knocked unconscious. 

Horses are not overpowered, nothing in the game is. 

[Herkkutatti666]

common sense isn't very common. 

Only in America

[polkafranzi]

You can easily get kills by just using a great lance and pressing WWWWWWX; as long as you do not play like a total tard you will net a few kills that way. Grab a fast horse, prey on unaware people, simple really. As long as it is hard to shoot horses down before they get to do this, it will be the easiest class to play.

I agreed with most of your earlier posts until you suddenly became mentally handicapped and wrote this one.

Using a great lance and couching it - Zzzzz, nobody wants to play that boring class and about 0.05% of the players currently do, so no point mentioning it really.

Taking a fast horse and preying on unaware people - well....derp, if you're a bundle of sticks or in GK (could be both) then you may do this tactic, but it's not very honourable yet very effective, but don't nerf cav stats because of these tards.  First - The unaware should get more awareness. Second - Horses are fast (sorry, that's just how nature made them).

Hard to shoot horses down - No. Now take into consideration that a horse is at least 5x as big as a person, my infantry characters often get headshotted and it's either "boom headshot i'm dead" or at least 90% hp gone.  Body shots to inf are meh damage, pretty average, same as with the horse.  But alas...the horses head is a much bigger target.  Be an archer, travel around with 1 pikeman and a shielder and cav won't touch you.  True story.

Easiest class to play - Leecher or auto-run suicider are easiest, followed by any class where you don't have to press many buttons, i.e. shielder or xbow/archer 

[bruce]

It is boring. Although actually reasonably effective if you are not bored to death with it.

To be honest, normal lancing is also meh now with a retarded right hand (it was more fun in old crpg, even with horses which were way more fragile), only fun things to do from horseback is shooting/throwing/1h.

My point is, riding on horseback is too forgiving now you can't get shot down so easy. I did play on horseback in old crpg where archers was the main cause of rage because it was so common to have the horse oneshot (and before the first archery nerfs, oneshot in the body from an archer with a strongbow, imagine that  ), wasn't so easy. For I time I even played as mounted infantry with shield+throwing, rode behind enemy lines, and attacked archers (not possible with these small maps though, plus they raped hybrids).

I think the fairest change would be a reduction of horse HP and armour (for unarmoured horses) to make them less tanky; I have a +3 courser (well, had, sold it, now I have a +3 steppe) and it is a bit nonsensical when you ride around with 4 arrows, or arbalest bolt and two arrows; +3 destriers can take a lot more. Perhaps an increase in agi requirement for HA skill (to prevent HAs/HXs from raping horses so much) would be good on top of this. Unfucking the lance angles somewhat would be nice, but w/e... however, giving spears old lance angles would be nice.

I just don't think that running into a spear and riding away should happen with any unarmoured horse; nor should running in front of a few archers and taking 2-3 shots. For all their size and weight, without armour they are flesh and bone and should get hurt by sharp things a lot harder.