It will be a cold day in hell...

[Joker86]

[...]

Yes, insulting and getting personal always helps. Great way of debating. 

[Adamar]

In a free society we are burdened with the nessissary evil of having to tolerate the... darker... aspects of freedom such as bigotry and ignorance.  If we were to outlaw these things, we wouldn't exactly be a free society, and that shit would suck.

I think that condeming the aspects of society that limit someone's quality of life can only be a positive thing in the long run.

[TheFocusedOne]

I think that condeming the aspects of society that limit someone's quality of life can only be a positive thing in the long run.

Yes, exactly.  This type of philosophy is called 'utilitarianism'.

[Zisa]

Yes, insulting and getting personal always helps. Great way of debating. 

~'Because you think this is the argument room, but this is abuse...'

The first paragraph was directed at you, but since you seem to be devoid of any type of humor chose instead to be insulted. Also you missed the point, or perhaps you recognize the 'ignore it till it goes away' action really is a shitty non action, and want to deflect the issue.

The second paragraph contains the word 'you' but is not directed at you but at those who keep chiming in about their right to spew. My apolgies for any clarity issues.

[Adamar]

Yes, exactly.  This type of philosophy is called 'utilitarianism'.

Not exactely, we already know the path we'd take. In order to solve the problem of racism we can either educate racists(as its mostly done now), or we can start a global ethnical clensing. An utilitarianist wont care what way its done(like G. W. Bush), while Im suggesting the less suffering possible.

[Joker86]

~'Because you think this is the argument room, but this is abuse...'

The first paragraph was directed at you, but since you seem to be devoid of any type of humor chose instead to be insulted. Also you missed the point, or perhaps you recognize the 'ignore it till it goes away' action really is a shitty non action, and want to deflect the issue.

The second paragraph contains the word 'you' but is not directed at you but at those who keep chiming in about their right to spew. My apolgies for any clarity issues.

Well okay, in this case no apology needed 

Look, actually I know what you mean. I don't want to read "burn all friends in gas chambers" in the chat too, that's disgusting. But always keep in mind WHY you would write that. Till now we have two motivations:

- Trolling
- Propaganda

I guess we only disagree about the relations. But never mind which relation it is, due to the "unsteady" nature of chat, disappearing after a few seconds ingame and a few minutes in the log, ingame chat is a very bad medium for spreading racist thoughts. And if you don't get any feedback at all, you will soon have the feeling of speaking only to yourself, and stop.

Okay, perhaps you shouldn't allow it, because a few scenarios came to my mind where it would really reach ugly extends, e.g. two racist finding each other on the servers. But in most cases just ignore it, don't pay it more attention than it deserves. The random black or jew joke shouldn't be commented at all, same as names like "sandfriend" "towelhead" "bimbo" or whatever. I think the only occasion where you should react is when someone really wants to start to argue about stuff. Either just mute him, or take screenshots and report him, but do NOT answer him, in any way, nor do something that harms yourself like teamkilling him. He will still be able to write to everyone who's dead, and next round he's back, with new motivation as he sees some reaction.

People do things only because they WANT something, it's one of the most basic rules of life. Just don't give those people what they want, it's the best you can do. Everything else would be a victory for them.

Edit: also keep in mind that an offended reaction towards something which wasn't really meant racistically could provoke that kind of: "Uh? What? You don't like it when I say friend? friend friend friend friend friend friend!"-reaction, making a drama where no drama was.

[Lt_Anders]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32513.0.html

And Zisa went and TKed him.

So, Now what makes you any different than the racist? If this was RL, you'd have been sent to prison for murder of the first degree.

Sigh this reminds me of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the time you are on Manaan. The selkath: "Words can be ignored, but action will not" This was in terms to the fact that Sith were essentially doing much the same as people do with "racist" speech. The Soldiers of the republic had enough and attacked the sith. They got thrown into jail. Who's wrong there, the sith or the republic?(in terms of today) Both were.

(click to show/hide)

Also, everyone seems to be pissing into two different cups here.
Bigot - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Racisim - 1.    the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
2.    abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

Bigotry - stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Everyone's a bigot, but not everyones racist, yet all racists are bigots.

People use the word RACIST far to much instead of the appropriate BIGOT. Cause of that, a lot of things i hear as "racist" aren't really that racist to me anymore because everyone likes to use it to denegrate anyone for not liking someone else.

[Cyber]

So you will TK someone who makes racist comments, that helps how...? I agree with Joker on the issue though don't really feel like getting into the discussion. Perhaps if you have no tolerance at all for racism, what about patriotism and nationalism for example, i would say the line between these is pretty blurry. Perhaps we should ban all the ppl who for example troll about how superior US or any other country is, enough people have been killed in the past for nationalism, sure they most likely mean no harm and it's just teasing to get a few ppl angry but it's most likely the same with most racist comments that you hear in cRPG.

[Zisa]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32513.0.html

And Zisa went and TKed him.

So, Now what makes you any different than the racist? If this was RL, you'd have been sent to prison for murder of the first degree.

Sigh this reminds me of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the time you are on Manaan. The selkath: "Words can be ignored, but action will not" This was in terms to the fact that Sith were essentially doing much the same as people do with "racist" speech. The Soldiers of the republic had enough and attacked the sith. They got thrown into jail. Who's wrong there, the sith or the republic?(in terms of today) Both were.

(click to show/hide)

Also, everyone seems to be pissing into two different cups here.
Bigot - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Racisim - 1.    the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
2.    abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

Bigotry - stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Everyone's a bigot, but not everyones racist, yet all racists are bigots. 

Anders, you happily run to the ban forum any chance you get. Are you hoping for a gold star from the teacher?

The shit you are full of is so putrid it is not worth my time to try and wade through to find any sense. Go find someone else to make miserable you whiney rules lawyer. Go argue with shadows.

[Lt_Anders]

Anders, you happily run to the ban forum any chance you get. Are you hoping for a gold star from the teacher?

The shit you are full of is so putrid it is not worth my time to try and wade through to find any sense. Go find someone else to make miserable you whiney rules lawyer. Go argue with shadows.

Please state when My last ban request was for something?

I mean, If i do something, it's for a GOOD reason. If this guy bothers you that much, BAN REQUEST HIM. I mean,you have the SSes and the EVIDENCE FOR IT. Why not do something WITHIN the "law" rather than be the Judge, Jury and executioner yourself? I mean, is it really THAT hard to take the "Racist" thread picture and post it into the ban thread section? Or those SSes of the log you had?

Edit: Also, with that post, what makes YOU any different now than that racist idiot?

[RandomOutsider]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32513.0.html

And Zisa went and TKed him.

So, Now what makes you any different than the racist? If this was RL, you'd have been sent to prison for murder of the first degree.

I think there's a difference between hate speech/tking in game and hate speech/murder in real life. It's comparing apples and oranges.
Also it would most likely not be first degree homicide as it was not premeditated (at least in the US states).

[Lt_Anders]

I think there's a difference between hate speech/tking in game and hate speech/murder in real life. It's comparing apples and oranges.
Also it would most likely not be first degree homicide as it was not premeditated (at least in the US states).

Very VERY true. But I was making a point that why would ZISA go and risk banning for breaking a rule and not post in the ban section themselves?

But rules are rules. Zisa got TKed and got banned for it. Least You could do is make a ban thread for the other guy for racism. Just look at Ylca, he's offended by it and he doesn't go off and TK people. He does things the proper way.

I can think of TONS of RL analogies, but no point. Just let this simmer down a bit.

EDIT: Phantoms Reply to Zisa was much the same as I said.

[Fartface]

BITCH BITCCH BITCCHHH BITCH BITCHHH BITCHHHH , that' how your motorcycle rolls

[Zisa]

EDIT: Phantoms Reply to Zisa was much the same as I said.

Phantom's reply, I am sorry to say, went something like this...
saw 'bundle of sticks' out of the corner of his eye, but did not actually read this :

The threat of silliness should be present in all
things. Otherwise we get a swarm of toughguys yelling
bundle of sticks at the cRPG/Internet population

Then did not actually read my post. It's a shame because he seems to have seen one word, focused on it and colored any view of anything else I read, and erroneously thinks he knows where I am coming from.

[Lt_Anders]

(click to show/hide)

Look bro, you got trolled, and then you went and teamkilled people in the spawn, including after being warned. Intentional teamkilling is against the rules, and doubly so immediately after spawn.
I was not online when Braun was being racist or whatever. I joined the server and immediately saw you teamkill in the spawn, I told you to stop and then you did it again.

You talk about racism and hatemongering yet casually use the word "bundle of sticks", I didn't bother to read the rest of what you wrote but I liked the reference to Satan at the end.
Go volunteer someplace to help victims of hate crime or something productive instead of getting mad at video games.

I will review the chat logs when they become available and see what happened and if necessary ban for racism, but you will not be unbanned.

Actually don't go volunteer, or even leave your house, you will probably go off on someone in a fit of rage and end up in prison.

Maybe about the bundle of sticks stuff, but not the TKing part. You were warned once not to do it and you committed it twice. Tking in spawn twice in a row.