Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!

[Son Of Odin]

Now not ALL players are minmaxers, but RP fellows are either used to grind for their top stuff, keep cheaper equipment, and generally wear stuff not many others do.

Oh so you shouldn't use certain popular items for your RP because it will bankrupt you? And you are not considered as RP'er if you use Kuyak?

Of course, there might be a player who thinks wearing Kuyak and DGS is cool, but who would really care if he got fucked?

Oh wow... just wow... Not that I care about DGS at all, but that comment is horseshit because the models of both kuyaks are unarguably the finest of this mod till this date and I think that's a valid reason to like them. Well DGS+Kuyak, still cooler than Katana + Lamellar Vest...

You will not be FORCED as you write it, to wear anything. You can do whatever you want, just like now, if you have the money for it, or grind for it.

Yeah sounds perfectly reasonable and sensible.

This idea is like taxes... They want to tax extra if some people do something that someone else doesn't like. It's basically controlling another's behaviour.

[Joker86]

IMO a good game offers the players dilemmas in balance.

Right. But in this case the dilemma would not be around "which is the best way to go for me", rather than "let's see which items are available right now for me", which is not the same.

This would further balance items based on the average opinion of their users, not the dev team. This change takes power from the devs and gives it to the users.

But upkeep itself doesn't really work for balancing, because there are players with millions of gold. So only the players without gold would be limited.

You will not be FORCED as you write it, to wear anything. You can do whatever you want, just like now, if you have the money for it, or grind for it.

And what if they don't? Upkeep already limits players who want to play as tincans or heavy cavalry constantly, which is still understandable somehow (although I don't see any reason why tincans or heavy cav couldn't be balanced to be only as effective as a spearman or an archer), people without money, which would be beginners mostly, would be even more limited.

Those who would feel this change the hardest are those who are:
* Hovering just below their income capacity/upkeep
* Wearing stuff A LOT of others are wearing

But as others start to use other stuff, your stuff will go down in price as a consequence.

I think there are a lot of people who are hovering just below their income capacity, it's only natural. They would all suffer from it, if they use the most viable items for their class, which is nothing bad, it's just what the current game balance makes them do if they want to maximize their character.


You know what I mean? Other people wearing the same items like you is rather a "random" factor, instead of a "balancing" factor, but I think balancing out the pros and cons of a build, including the "budget" for equipment (if a limit which defines a budget is existing at all  ) should rely on stats and clever character planning, instead of "now let's hope not too many people decide to use what I want to use"...

It makes minmaxing really difficult, but I think players do have a right on minmaxing, it's an important part of RPG for some people, same as grinding or reenacting someone. Everyone has his preferences, and I don't like the idea to be forced to use something inferior or to look differently just because of the actions OTHER players do. I don't like being dependant on them.

[Casimir]

This would be another great reason not to play cRPG.

Guy A: Wanna play some cRPG bro?

Guy B: No mate, everyone else likes the things i do now i have to give all the money i have just to use them

Guy A: Fair enough lets not bother.


This is how i see things developing. I do not care.

[Thomek]

Right. But in this case the dilemma would not be around "which is the best way to go for me", rather than "let's see which items are available right now for me", which is not the same.

It is like it is now. Only the item price would be balanced by popularity as well as stats.

But upkeep itself doesn't really work for balancing, because there are players with millions of gold. So only the players without gold would be limited.

It's like this now too, nothing we can do about it. Ok with me.

And what if they don't? Upkeep already limits players who want to play as tincans or heavy cavalry constantly, which is still understandable somehow (although I don't see any reason why tincans or heavy cav couldn't be balanced to be only as effective as a spearman or an archer), people without money, which would be beginners mostly, would be even more limited.

People with little money, creative people, and beginners would benefit the most from this. People that MUST HAVE DGS will not.

I think there are a lot of people who are hovering just below their income capacity, it's only natural. They would all suffer from it, if they use the most viable items for their class, which is nothing bad, it's just what the current game balance makes them do if they want to maximize their character.


You know what I mean? Other people wearing the same items like you is rather a "random" factor, instead of a "balancing" factor, but I think balancing out the pros and cons of a build, including the "budget" for equipment (if a limit which defines a budget is existing at all  ) should rely on stats and clever character planning, instead of "now let's hope not too many people decide to use what I want to use"...

It makes minmaxing really difficult, but I think players do have a right on minmaxing, it's an important part of RPG for some people, same as grinding or reenacting someone. Everyone has his preferences, and I don't like the idea to be forced to use something inferior or to look differently just because of the actions OTHER players do. I don't like being dependant on them.

You are right, actions of other people would influence your upkeep, but this would stabilize over time. In the beginning we might see some adjustment, yes. Players have a right to minmax, but minmaxing should be hard, not easy.

If the prices we have now are correct within a 30% margin, this could be the range new prices could deviate inside, and with time, not long I reckon they would be pretty stable, but better reflecting the actual power of the item.  (And make being original and unique cheaper)

No need to make horror scenarios here..

[Thomek]

This idea is like taxes... They want to tax extra if some people do something that someone else doesn't like. It's basically controlling another's behaviour.

No, this idea is like capitalism. If many people want an item, you have to pay up for it.

What we have now is state(dev) controlled prices. That's why they can never reflect the items true value.
(In the current metagame)

You communist or wut?

For those that are afraid of market crashes etc, we could add a max change value of 1% per item per week or something. Then it would slowly sink in, but still change fast enough to keep up with the metagame. No one would be shocked.

[Son Of Odin]

No, this idea is like capitalism. If many people want an item, you have to pay up for it.

What we have now is state(dev) controlled prices. That's why they can never reflect the items true value.
(In the current metagame)

You communist or wut?

For those that are afraid of market crashes etc, we could add a max change value of 1% per item per week or something. Then it would slowly sink in, but still change fast enough to keep up with the metagame. No one would be shocked.

Nah capitalism doesn't work that way. If there is people wanting to buy something in large numbers, the capitalistic pigs will force the makers of the certain product work harder. After that they get bigger factories and develop the manufacturing process. At the same time the product itself gets even cheaper to make because the making process gets standardized. Popularity normally should show as lowered prices to the customer as well.

This upkeep system is like taxes. I mean that in every country there is people who hate something that some other people do. Even if it doesn't affect in their lives anyways, they want to make something illegal or "bad".

Well let's get an example. Smoking! Some people seem to have a huge passion to get smoking and nicotine in general illegal. Hmm they can't actually do that. They've tried it and they can't do it so fast. What's the next best way to keep people from smoking? "TAX THE SHIT OUT OF THAT SHIT! PUT SOME EXTRA TAX TO IT SO THOSE SILLY PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT! I DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY'RE DOING SO TAX IT! IT'S THEIR FAULT FOR HAVING THAT NASTY HABIT WHICH I THINK IS BARBARIC AND NO COOL, THEY SHOULD PAY!". The same goes for gasoline, alcohol, etc. Now they are even speaking about sugar tax... Well fuck me... But yeah this is almost completely the pattern I see in your suggestion.

[cmp]

Comparing smoking and alcohol taxes to gasoline tax...

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[Son Of Odin]

Comparing smoking and alcohol taxes to gasoline tax...

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Not even Gnjuspalm? I don't know about you, but it's starting to be too expensive for me to drive a car (not to speak about owning one like I do), smoke and drink beer at all in this world nowadays and it makes me sad .

(click to show/hide)

Well I don't really like smoking myself but I don't want to limit other people from doing it.

[ArchonAlarion]

In capitalism, the more an item is demanded (popularity) the more are produced and the cheaper they become. Only in a world of fixed supply would prices become higher if demand increased.

ECON 101

[BlindGuy]

Thought it kinda apropriate to mention this: This system was introduced in counterstrike to try to stop the endless use of the same 5 weapons. It didnt last a month.

[Son Of Odin]

Thought it kinda apropriate to mention this: This system was introduced in counterstrike to try to stop the endless use of the same 5 weapons. It didnt last a month.

The 5 weapons: AK, M16, Pump shotgun, AWI and Desert Eagle? That's the first 5 weapons that come to my mind...

But before Thomek writes his answer I would like to save him from the work. On a serious note I don't think this is too bad idea actually. I don't picture it as radical as you might make it sound. And in my mind the system would be calculating the situation in real time when you play. You would have some hint about the situation by looking around. "Do I see a lot of kuyaks? no. Ok I'll wear it now since it doesn't look too bad." Or there should be a list which is updated daily and I can see what weapons are wise to use.

[Rebelyell]

Its really bad idea
If something is in use meake that cheaper becouse mor production=lovercosts
And that looms are mine, there is no factory wich produce  looms, you have you'r own or you makes that you'r self
Tomek you cant sepeak about upkeap because you don't understand that system.

Ah and peps will start making stupid ugly weeboshit anyl because no one use hat so thats cheap,
I have 10000000000000000000000000000000 of reasons why that idea is bad

[chadz]

Everyone: Y u no have  anything sensible to say??

I like the idea. Dynamicismium!

+1

+1

Motion carried.

[Vibe]

+1

+1

Motion carried.

NO

[Christo]

Interesting idea, I'd love to see this with armors.

Make those kuyak wearers suffer!