Author Topic: Nerf The Courser  (Read 7299 times)

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Offline Torben

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2012, 09:12:34 pm »
+1
if i could afford it i would always ride a +3 large warhorse,  cata or mamluk.  but i cant,  so i ride my courser
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2012, 09:13:06 pm »
0
Don't know if this helps, but many people use hunter(destrier) over courser in native clanmatches. Of course, those who want to utilize a faster steed pick coursers. But destriers can stand up to much more arrows.
Of course while coursers' speed might seem nice, I think when a horse is at full speed with not high manuever to compensate for it's speed (like arabian warhorse) are more vulnerable to ranged projectiles. So it might be a curse as well as a gift. I personally have no experience of this cav business in cRPG but I am going to try a lancer and a horse archer. So that's a bit of a theory. But it is a theory from a very old player for Mount and Blade series; only not so old for cRPG.
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Offline Lemmy_Winks

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2012, 09:15:29 pm »
0
Disagree, I don't know what you are doing but in a turning fight, you will always beat the courser.

Unless he runs away to return later, in which case you have more than 3 to 5 seconds...

Staying behind a horse is by no means controlling him as well, you control your enemy by making him act. Sure, if you are behind someone you cut of certain angles of escape or attack, but they can outwit you and reverse the tables.

What? Where do you play that no one manages to hit a speeding courser in a round?  :?

Even as a HA hitting a courser going full speed is no harder than hitting any other horse. It only takes slightly more leading...if anything I would say it is harder to hit someone moving erratically(i.e. agility).

Remy im 1h cav so i try not to engage lancer cav. Sometimes if one bothers me enough i will attack and kill them but it takes time and it is somewhat risky for me given they have a much longer and faster weapon than i do. I also try not to engage them because i can kill more people attacking infantry than fighting cavalry, i usually do prety well so my team is depending on my to kill alot of people, not spend the round fighting a lancer cav whose chasing me.
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Offline Remy

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2012, 09:23:55 pm »
0
Yeah, but even a guy on a courser will have the same problem if someone is really dedicated to hunting them down...

The same applies to any horse, if your enemy makes it their sole goal to remove you from the battle even a Sumpter can disrupt your attacks.



I just don't quite understand your complaints, it seems to be mostly about the fact that speed is useful and that you have a slower but much more survivable horse? I would be just as confused if someone made a thread about how Coursers are bad because they are not agile enough.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 09:26:18 pm by Remy »
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Offline Lemmy_Winks

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2012, 09:36:02 pm »
0
Yeah, but even a guy on a courser will have the same problem if someone is really dedicated to hunting them down...

The same applies to any horse, if your enemy makes it their sole goal to remove you from the battle even a Sumpter can disrupt your attacks.



I just don't quite understand your complaints, it seems to be mostly about the fact that speed is useful and that you have a slower but much more survivable horse? I would be just as confused if someone made a thread about how Coursers are bad because they are not agile enough.

Not really, if your on a courser, you simply run away from the person chasing you they cant catch you. You will leave them in the dust in a matter of seconds. Same thing applies if the pereson is on a sumpter, they cant catch you and therefore are not a threat. Im complaing that coursers are #1 in damage and anywhere from #8-#4 in survivability yet they are #9 when it comes to price, that makes absoultely no sense at all. They must be made more expensive, the best horse in the game should not be one of the least expensive.
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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2012, 09:53:40 pm »
+4
Don't worry guys I'm trying cav this gen and I plan on using a courser.

If anyone can make a mount look completely horrible and un-deserving of a nerf, I'm the one for the job.
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Offline Spanish

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2012, 10:45:10 pm »
0
Go ahead and nerf coursers, I couldn't care less. You make coursers sound like rocket ships that can hunt down other cav and are amazingly supreme. You dont lance so yo don't understand how most cav v cav kills are made. In almost all my experince its usually happens in a head on or you get t-boned by a lancer. Both of these situations are easily avoidable if you know how to manuever your horse. Honestly Lemmy, what kind of damage can a lancer do if he is directly behind you poking you in the back with a lance. Which is very Hard (if you keep turning)because the speed bonus is gone because your both riding the same way. If anything when he's behind you like that you can do more damage with a backhanded slash. This whole I'm going so fast that archers can't see me bullshit is getting old. Half of being a cav is knowing where to be when to pick ppl off. And if you think you move to slow still do what Habb did with his champ cata and go 9 riding and outmaneuver everybody else. Ultimately the stats only help so much when other cav also have higher points in riding than you as well.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 10:46:50 pm by Spanish »
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2012, 10:56:17 pm »
+2
Not really, if your on a courser, you simply run away from the person chasing you they cant catch you. You will leave them in the dust in a matter of seconds.

Have you ever ridden a courser? You do realise the acceleration is pretty crap? Over a short distance the Arabian will win every time. As will any horse with a higher manoeuvre. Coursers take a lot longer to reach top speed. So if you hit a slope, decelerate and are being chased by the Arabian, the forced speed change means the arabian will catch you quite easily as at the top of the slope the arabian will over take you before you hit even near top speed. The only time the courser has a true advantage is on very flat maps.

I have a +3 courser with 6 riding and it takes a long time for the speed to actually make a difference and make me catch up on any full build lancer riding a decent horse. The speed difference is no where near as much as you make it sound. With the necessary changing of directions and speed that cav fights and fights vs inf demand, the coursers speed isn't actually much of a factor. The bump damage does make up for some of that though.

Nerfing coursers is dumb.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 11:00:58 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Lemmy_Winks

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2012, 11:05:14 pm »
0
Go ahead and nerf coursers, I couldn't care less. You make coursers sound like rocket ships that can hunt down other cav and are amazingly supreme. You dont lance so yo don't understand how most cav v cav kills are made. In almost all my experince its usually happens in a head on or you get t-boned by a lancer. Both of these situations are easily avoidable if you know how to manuever your horse. Honestly Lemmy, what kind of damage can a lancer do if he is directly behind you poking you in the back with a lance. Which is very Hard (if you keep turning)because the speed bonus is gone because your both riding the same way. If anything when he's behind you like that you can do more damage with a backhanded slash. This whole I'm going so fast that archers can't see me bullshit is getting old. Half of being a cav is knowing where to be when to pick ppl off. And if you think you move to slow still do what Habb did with his champ cata and go 9 riding and outmaneuver everybody else. Ultimately the stats only help so much when other cav also have higher points in riding than you as well.

Before i went 1h cav and made my main cav, i had an alt lancer cav that i played alot, almost as much if not more than my main. Ya you can make cav kills charging head on and hitting someone in the head, but that is a very stupid and dangerous thing to do. Charging someone head on your about as likely to be killed as they are, its not fighting intelligently. And if you hit the horses head and it doesn't die your dead because your guna to get nailed in the chest by a lance with ur sheild being down.

And good players will aim for the "sweet spot" which is an area in the front center of the horse that if hit will damage both the horse and rider, (maybe even if the rider has their shield up don't remember) so when going up against them you will always get hit hard and probably killed if your lance head shot doesn't kill the horse.The smart way to fight as lancer cav is to get up behind them and stab the horse in the ass. It wont do as much damage as a head shot but you still do alot and its plenty enough to quickly kill a horse, and doing it this way keeps you 100% safe, this is intelligent fighting. And hitting a horse in the rear is easier than hitting it in the head, given that its rear is alot large than its head and the rider cant see its rear (or you) unless hes changing his angle view (which is also dangerous cause u can get nailed from the front).

With the archers its about them having a *fair* amount of time to recognize that a horse is coming and react, half a second is not enough time. Its really not hard to stab an archer in the back whose not paying attention to you, its not much of a skill everyone knows that. As far as riding points, the vast majority of cav do not have more than 6 riding points (the amount needed for courser), and habb having 9, well i dont know what its doing to help him he uses 100k worth of gear and yet he is pretty mediocre.

And overdriven, obviously the courser has the same or better manuverability as any other horse other than arabian (so by your logic their acceleration and ability to hit top speed is as good or better than nay other horse than arabian), being above average in a category like manuverability is not a weakness.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 11:14:10 pm by Lemmy_Winks »
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Offline Hobb

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2012, 11:15:52 pm »
0
Im not very good at cav v cav body shots but i find it much harder to fight non coursers because of my speed... The timing it causes is a flip of the coin situation imo

When a courser tops the list they get alot of archer n noob kills as compared to the slower cav


Offline Overdriven

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2012, 11:16:29 pm »
0
And overdriven, obviously the courser has the same or better manuverability as any other horse other than arabian (so by your logic their acceleration and ability to hit top speed is as good or better than nay other horse than arabian), being above average in a category like manuverability is not a weakness.

It is a weakness as manoeuvre affects acceleration. In cav fighting on the maps we have that is more important than top speed. Also the manoeuvre is worse than 4 of the light horses. It is the same as 2 and better than 1. That puts it at a significant disadvantage in the vast majority of maps. Particularly in cav fighting. The courser definitely does not need any change.

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2012, 11:22:59 pm »
+1
I ride a +3 destriter, and everything u said about a courser in reguards to weakness can be said about a +3 destriter. It gets one shotted by throwers all the time, and obviously running into a wall near infantry will get you dehorsed and killed unless your riding a charger or something.

you are a 1 handed cav, 1 handed cav are suppose to be a meal for the lancers.  They are very easy targets and they should never try to engage enemy lancers unless you are 100% sure that you will be able to stagger their horse and then kill them, which is nearly impossible. Destrier is used to fight against infantry, not to engage enemy cav, if you see a rider on a courser is chasing you, you should not flee because his horse is faster, which means you should turn around and fight him back. All 1 handed cav should always stay near to their infantry unless they wanna get raped by lancers

Light Cav eating cycle : Arabian Warhorse > Courser > Destrier

Edit: In EU there is a very best known 1 handed cav called Byzantium_Royanss, he ride on a arabian warhorse and can kill many lancers per round after he stop their horse, he usually top the scoreboard in almost every cav map.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 11:28:01 pm by AlexTheDragon »

Offline Lemmy_Winks

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2012, 11:32:39 pm »
-2
Hobb a courser rider is on top of the charts 90% of the time. You and your clan mates who ride catas rarely perform as well as courser riders do, despite the fact that catas cost 44k and coursers only cost 19k, that is a big problem.

Overdriven your distorting the facts by compareing the courser to a small group of horses that does have more manuverability than a courser. If you actually include all of the horses the average manuverability is 41, making the coursre as i said average, and being average in a category is nto a weakness, especially when your the undisputed best in the most important category, speed, and when your very cheap compared to the average horse price.

Alex im not complaining about courser lancers being at a huge advantage against dsetriter 1hs, im complaining that a courser is #1 in damage/speed by far and anywhere from #4-#8 in survivability and yet it is #9 in cost, that is completely ridiculous and it needs to change. There is no excuse for that.

And for the who knows how many people who keep bringing up Arabians, if you want to nerf them too i dont care but im not argueing for it in this thread.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 11:37:36 pm by Lemmy_Winks »
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Offline BADPLAYERold

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2012, 11:47:05 pm »
+1
Hobb a courser rider is on top of the charts 90% of the time. You and your clan mates who ride catas rarely perform as well as courser riders do, despite the fact that catas cost 44k and coursers only cost 19k, that is a big problem.

maybe because hobb is a better player than them??? makes u think.
its not the horse its the rider the horse is personal preference.

whenever i use a cataphract the only cavalry players that do better than me in terms of kills are rohypnol and huey if its a large flat map. maybe youre just bad at the game (you are).

Offline Spanish

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Re: Nerf The Courser
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2012, 11:50:10 pm »
+1
All right Lemmy first off...lancing head on is reckless but only if you lack the ability to win. It is not a coin flip as to who will win its all about timing and positioning. I can't believe you think it's chance when most good cav utterly decimate others in head on charges and consistently as well. And doing that stab in the butt nonsense hah get on that courser cav and try and touch me just try I'll be waiting all day. For that matter go hunt down a HA or HX and tell me how it goes trying to catch that Arabian or even destrier for that matter.

And "fair" if you want crpg to be perfectly fair we should all do our 3,3 builds and beat each other down with clubs. It's just wow you think we need to alert archers to or presence so they may have the opportunity to shoot us? No wonder you die so quickly, allowing hem to shoot at you is a bad thing. Half the talent at being cav is not getting shot at if I did that I wouldnt survive the first 30 seconds of the round. And half a second to register a courser coming at you? Were are these numbers coming from if yu have tunnel vision even a guy on a sumpter can get the jump on you.

And as for most ppl crpg having 6 riding well go ahead beat them on riding and I bet that you will be better against other cav in any situation.

Point is that this survivablity factor your creating is crazy. A guy on a courser charging a pikeman is going to die just as surely as a destrier will. It's whether or not he charges it that makes a difference so if you want to live longer fight smarter and stop saying coursers run at the speed of light and are nearly immune to archer fire. They've just learned to fight smarter
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