Nerf The Courser

[Aleskander]

You mention getting one hit due to speed bonus, the same thing applies to a destriter. My +3 has been one shotted by bows plenty of times and its not so much the speed bonus its getting shot in the head with a powerful weapon.

>My +3 has been one shotted by bows plenty of times
>My +3 has been one shotted by bows
>One shotted by bows
>Bows


lol

[Lemmy_Winks]

Destrier is better than Courser.

They have similar maneuver but Courser is a lot faster which means  it's actually harder to maneuver with Courser. Courser is great when you want to ambush someone going in a straight line but against other cavalry isn't good at all, despite its high speed.

Arabian is the king of horses on EU1. And large war horse, which has stupidly huge model (perfect for bumping people).

When your turning on any horse you always slow down depending on how tight the turn is, the fact that you can go "too" fast in that case is irrelevant. Against other cav it is good, with its high speed no other horse can catch it, and therefore no other horse can kill it if the rider does not want to fight it. Also due to the fact that it can pick and choose when to engage and when not to engage, a courser player can always pick its battles and choose to engage at very advantageous times giving it a good chance of winning.

Killing an arabian with a courser is not hard, as i said before you just have to stay right behind the horse, which is true to an extent against any horse, and you dont even have to stay behind the horse for long given that with the coursers speed you will catch the horse in a matter of seconds.

If your a decent player you can do this easily, but a lot of cav are not decent players. Even if Arabian is most popular on EU, NA has superior cav players and their choice of the courser over Arabian holds more weight to me. And if you all think that the courser should not be nerfed, then you must believe that cav is 100% fair and should not be nerfed at all, because the vast majority of the kills in this game are gotten by players who ride coursers. Coursers are the problem with cavalry balance, not cavalry itself.

[Torben]

NERF THE GODDAM HORSE ALREADY!!! 

[CrazyCracka420]

My 3 favorite horses all with pro's and con's (using the courser as the "constant")

Destriers - 4 points slower, 1 point more maneuver.  Most upkeep.  9 more body armor, 20 more hit points.  Only requires 5 riding, meaning you only need 15 agility, this is a very big "pro".
Arabian Warhorse - 1 point slower than the destrier, 7 more maneuver.  8 less body armor than courser.  Con is that it requires 7 agility, meaning you need 21 agility to ride.  Has the most maneuver. 

Courser is the fastest of the three, and has 1 more maneuver than destrier (but at top speed less than a destrier's maneuver).  It requires 6 riding, so middle of the pro/con list for agility requirement.  It has the lowest upkeep of the three, but not enough to be much of a pro or con for any of the three.

Basically for me it comes down to, do I want speed (courser) or maneuver (arabian).  Or do I want to be able to have a good amount of strength (and still a pretty fast and pretty maneuverable horse with more HP and armor than the others), then go with a destrier.

All 3 have pro's and con's, and I really like all 3.  Personally having 21 agility is too much for me, I really like having at least 6 power strike.  And if I didn't already start looming my courser (when I first did) I would have probably rather had a +3 destrier than a +3 courser.

Coursers are really best suited for being able to outrun other cavalry (and basically not get run down).  Other than that, destrier is better for infantry (which is how cavalry should be used, IMO).  And arabian is better at not getting hit by enemy cavalry (and good at juking archers and juking infantry and being able to get hits on them without needing to rely on surprise).

In conclusion, everything in this game has pro's and con's.  Learn to use the strengths of the item or class to your advantage, and try to exploit the weaknesses of the enemies class or item or equipment.  Also, people really need to learn the rock/paper/scissor tactics of this game...it's common sense.

[Son Of Odin]

NERF ALL HORSES TO HELL AND GIVE THEM 100% SAME STATS SO IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH HORSE YOU CHOOSE, NO MATTER HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY! IT'S ALL THE SAME YAY!

[CrazyCracka420]

Lemmy a horse xbow on a +3 arabian with 8 riding will be able to outmaneuver my +3 courser with 6 riding all day.  If they are halfway decent I can't catch them on my courser.  You can't just "stay behind them".  If they juke left then right then left, I'm still way off to the right from their 2nd juke (unless I anticipate their movements, which would work for any horse I'm on).  They have more maneuver and the only way to "catch" them is to t-bone them in a straight line when they don't see you coming.  Or the only other way to catch them is for the rider to be a shitty rider.  They start and stop a lot faster than a courser as well.

Stop talking out your ass, and get in teamspeak once in a while.

[Garem]

I really don't care about the stats... they're pretty flimsy horses and aren't terribly cheap.

I do get very, very annoyed with how goddamn quiet these horses are while moving so fast. If there were a way to just increase the noise they make, I'd be happy. These Stealth Coursers are fucking annoying.

[Son Of Odin]

I really don't care about the stats... they're pretty flimsy horses and aren't terribly cheap.

I do get very, very annoyed with how goddamn quiet these horses are while moving so fast. If there were a way to just increase the noise they make, I'd be happy. These Stealth Coursers are fucking annoying.

They are stealthy only because they have the speed to surprise you before you turn around and actually see them ;). Solution = More metal sounds mod. I think you can hear horses far more better when using it (even from longer distance). Against aware opponent I would take Arabian any day especially now since the lance angle is what it is.

[CrazyCracka420]

I really don't care about the stats... they're pretty flimsy horses and aren't terribly cheap.

I do get very, very annoyed with how goddamn quiet these horses are while moving so fast. If there were a way to just increase the noise they make, I'd be happy. These Stealth Coursers are fucking annoying.

I think horse sounds have always been buggy in M&B.  Some mods worse than others.  At least it gets louder as it gets closer...it's not like the horse is running on concrete or pavement, how loud would a horse coming at you be?  I doubt in the middle of all the sounds of combat you'd necessarily be able to detect a horse approaching you. 

But as far as this being a video game, I suppose it would be nice if the horse hooves approaching were louder (they'd still need to get louder as it approached or you'd have no way to gauge how close the horse was, or which direction it is in relation to you).

[Spanish]

All of you stop bashing on my Arabian Warhorse damnit. And Lemmy you actually think a courser can run me down by staying behind me? Huey newton, tommy hu none of those guys charge me because they know it's pointless to try catching me. The only way I ever fight them is if I go after them and if they run away, well okay I'm just going to turn in and cut them off from the rest The infantry. Point is just because they're fast doesn't mean that they're better. I can match them kill for kill with my 2h sword if I wanted too. And as for that dodging arrow nonsense it's only if I see them shooting at me and hope it isn't an arbalest cuz then my horse dead :/

i dont have a problem with the courser, even though its overused...its the arab that needs to go up 50% from where its at.  So your telling me an agile thoroughbred trained Arabian is LESS expensive than a common run of the mill destrier?

Yeah diggelz I agree with this because my horse is fucking amazing I'd pay more especially since  my horse should even be faster than that fat piece of crap destrier. It's not like the Arabian even really has armor so why is it slower than a destrier, stupid game balance.

[rustyspoon]

Saying that the Courser is OP is laughable. The non-armored horses are pretty balanced among themselves.

When I'm cav I much prefer the Arabian or Destrier over the Courser, honestly. Sure the Courser is fast, but it can't turn for shit.

Also, when I'm infantry I'd much rather fight someone on a Courser than a Destrier. If a Courser is coming at me I know I can easily 1-shot it with a 1-hander. Not so much with the Destrier...

[Remy]

I love the courser, considering the speed it usually travels with, it is one of easiest horses to kill  as HA. 


In regards to their OPness I find coursers quite alright, though they are fast the lack of agility means that even on slower horse you can easily out turn them when they get close as cavalry.

If I ride a Steppe horse and someone starts chasing me as on a Courser, I will simply start turning randomly, if he tries to follow I will eventually end up turning inside his circle.

[Lemmy_Winks]

Alot of the people in this thread are courser riders who say coursers are not good and that they would rather ride another horse, yet they ride a courser anyways for some irrelevant reason. Obviously you guys just dont want the horse to be nerfed and i know that you do believe that it is the best horse by far but its still not fair to others. If you really wanted to ride a destriter, even if u have a +3 courser already, well put it up on the marketplace for a destriter if you *really* think a destriter is better and youll have a +3 destriter in a few days, but nope, you wont do that. Actions speak louder than words and your actions say that you think the courser is better.

Yes you can turn to avoid a courser, and i do that multiple times of every round of every game i play on a desteriter. Ya youll get ahead of them but with their insane speed they will be back within lance range of you in about 3-5 seconds and you have to turn again. If they choose to chase you indefinitely it is very difficult for you to do anything at all and they will eventually get you no matter how bad they are. And staying behind a horse is about controlling your speed and being quick to react to their turning movements, and like i just said even though they will lose you a little with the turn you can catch back up in a few seconds for another chance to lance them and cutting someone off is alot easier when your twice as fast as they are.

As far as horse sounds go that someone talked about ive ridden horses a bit in RL and if one is running full speed and coming at you, you will easily hear it. In fact you would be able to hear the sound of hooves from very far away, it is very loud, a group of horses running is like thunder. Problem with courser as ive mentioned before is they are so fast that you hear the hooves and half a second later you get lanced, with other slower horses you have time, which is more fair.

About the coursers stats:

People have mentioned they dont care about the stats, but the stats are the horse. Even if you looked at them in a straightforward manner, the courser is #1 in damage by far having 5 more speed than the next fastest horse, and #8 in durability, yet with these two stats it is #9 in cost. If its #9 in cost shouldnt it be #9 in damage (not #1) and #9 in durability (not 8). And even though on paper it is #8 in durability, it is actually much higher than that in terms of survivability which is what really matters, to fast for another horse to catch, too fast to shoot. Ive ridden both horses and i go down faster on a cataphract that is so slow and big that it can be shot 10 times and killed in 30-40 seconds vs a courser that can be shot at all game and not get hit once due to its speed.

Surviving on a faster horse is always easier. If coursers were as weak and vulnerable as everyone claims then it would not be so common for coursers to survive the game, coursers have a higher survival rate than any horse other than the Arabian and plated charger. You guys act as if they are glass canons and nothing could be further from the truth, especially when the stat difference with the desetriter enables a destriter to take maybe only1 more arrow or so than a courser can. I would put the coursers survivability at #4 as a conservative estimate. So how does a horse that is undisputed #1 in damage by far and that is #4 in survivability be #9 in cost? It doesn't make sense at all.

[BADPLAYERold]

people ride coursers because +3 destriers cost a fucking lot of gold to trade for and armoured horses have high upkeep.

i ride 95% of the time a cataphract or destrier and they are way better than courser.
also lol arabians have a "high survival rate"? if 1 archer decides to focus on you for a round you cant get within 1/2 the map of them because 1lucky shot and your horse is almost dead.

[Remy]

Yes you can turn to avoid a courser, and i do that multiple times of every round of every game i play on a desteriter. Ya youll get ahead of them but with their insane speed they will be back within lance range of you in about 3-5 seconds and you have to turn again. If they choose to chase you indefinitely it is very difficult for you to do anything at all and they will eventually get you no matter how bad they are. And staying behind a horse is about controlling your speed and being quick to react to their turning movements, and like i just said even though they will lose you a little with the turn you can catch back up in a few seconds for another chance to lance them and cutting someone off is alot easier when your twice as fast as they are.

Disagree, I don't know what you are doing but in a turning fight, you will always beat the courser.

Unless he runs away to return later, in which case you have more than 3 to 5 seconds...

Staying behind a horse is by no means controlling him as well, you control your enemy by making him act, following someone is merely that, a chase. Sure, if you are behind someone you can cut of certain angles of escape or attack, but they can outwit you and reverse the tables.

Ive ridden both horses and i go down faster on a cataphract that is so slow and big that it can be shot 10 times and killed in 30-40 seconds vs a courser that can be shot at all game and not get hit once due to its speed.

What? Where do you play that no one manages to hit a speeding courser in a round? 

Even as a HA hitting a courser going full speed is no harder than hitting any other horse. It only takes slightly more leading...if anything I would say it is harder to hit someone moving erratically(i.e. agility).