the horse crossbowman problem/motf

[ROHYPNOL]

its a bolt not a bullet.. do you ever see any other hx on top of the scoreboard? lol.. i thought this was a game balance discussion in term of it being op or something yet i can only account for 2 or 3 people at the most that can even get above 20 kills in a map.. and those same people can reach even higher than that with other builds.. still tryin to figure out how this is either op or unbalanced. like i said only 2 or 3 people are worth a shit at hc am i right> and if im wrong then tell me who is worth a shit at this build and prove me wrong. i went back to lancing cav and i seems that i can get high 30s and 40 kills consistently.. pretty hard to do that with this build imo. its also more diffucult than most of you cry babies think it is, at least more difficult than other builds.. if you try it and go 10-3.. dont say you are good and that its op because you still suck. in order for any of you to talk about a build being op.. you should try it.. fraps it and laugh at yourself about how bad yet again you are

[Rumblood]

So you will be melee.

So your fix for the non-existant HX issue is to.....nerf archery and turn them into melee? 

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[Slamz]

i thought this was a game balance discussion in term of it being op or something

And again, it's not about kills.

It's about delaying the game and people being douchebags.  Ladders weren't removed because they were OP and archers were wracking up massive kills.  They were removed because of douchebags making us all sit around twiddling our thumbs while they sat perched in a safe place and delayed the inevitable.  HX is the exact same problem.

They could have fixed motf instead of removing ladders, but they didn't.

They could fix motf instead of removing HX... will they?

[CrazyCracka420]

And again, it's not about kills.

It's about delaying the game and people being douchebags.  Ladders weren't removed because they were OP and archers were wracking up massive kills.  They were removed because of douchebags making us all sit around twiddling our thumbs while they sat perched in a safe place and delayed the inevitable.  HX is the exact same problem.

They could have fixed motf instead of removing ladders, but they didn't.

They could fix motf instead of removing HX... will they?

People have been asking for a MotF to spawn every round so there's never a draw, it still hasn't happened.  Considering c-rpg is nerf upon nerf upon nerf, I'm assuming they'll just nerf HX instead of fixing the underlying issue. 

You can slap all the mosquitoes as you want, but until you get rid of that old tire they are breeding in, there will continue to be mosquitoes.

[Homey_D_Clown]

The real solution is to stick with your team and not run out in the open field by yourself and expect to kill a good horse xbow guy, then get mad and make posts on the forum. Although I do agree a change should be made to MOTF but not because of that class.

[Tomas]

So your fix for the non-existant HX issue is to.....nerf archery and turn them into melee? 

Yes, because buffing archery accuracy is actually a nerf.

I'll highlight the part of my previous post that you seem to be continually ignoring.

1 Quiver only -> Archer/HA Accuracy Buff -> Less skill points/wpf needed for archery -> skill points/wpf left over for melee

So you will be melee.

The idea is to counter the ammo nerf with the accuracy buff so that archery remains balanced, but with less ammo overall the ends of rounds will be not be drawn out as much.

[Rumblood]

It took your 3rd post to make the statement of an accuracy buff. Before that you only specified a WPF buff to get "a few points to drop into melee".

So here is what happens with your new idea. Give them enough accuracy to go low on archery WPF and put those extra points into melee. They become better at archery and competitive as melee again. With only 1 stack of arrows, we can use 2 handers and polearms again. Everyone carries bodkins because there is no sense in using anything less. Bodkins upkeep balance is thrown off because you aren't carrying 2 stacks or 1 stack plus some other arrow type. Everyone picks up arrows off the ground, without concern for dropping a stack because they will all be the same, removing the point of reducing them to 1 stack in the first place.

So Archers become Rambo again, able to take out every other class in the game, while being mostly immune to the majority of them. If those other classes manage to get into melee range, the Archer then whips out his Spamberge (or whatever is OP) and stands on even ground against them.

It just isn't a good idea. It would require an entirely new set of "balancing" features and why? Because HX draw out rounds?

There is another way to prevent round draws. Fix MOTF.

There are far better ways to modify archery and internal bow balance. Making all archers become hyrid Rambo's just isn't one of them.

[Slamz]

You know, the one problem with the MOTF solution is that it doesn't really solve the problem.

The problem is "everyone gets pissed off watching a pair of HX spend 3 minutes delaying the game after everyone else on their team is dead, versus 20+ enemies that they don't even have enough ammo to kill".

The MOTF idea fixes a subset of this problem which is HX forcing draws.

But the real root issue here is what I originally stated in my first post, which is that "HX has no sensible counter".  Any one of us could roll HX right now and delay every match for a couple of minutes.  That part isn't hard.

The same could be said of HA, but they are so weak nobody cares and hardly anyone bothers to be HA as a result.


What the solution to this whole problem is, I don't know.  "This is why we can't have nice things."  It shouldn't BE a problem.  HX has no counter but they aren't exactly wrecking balls either.  Rohypnol was more dangerous to more people as a polearm spammer than he ever will be as an HX -- it just takes him too long to kill a wary target and he almost never clutches anymore.  It's dumb.  He's just doing it because it's the latest fashion trend for trolling the game.  This isn't a thread about motf or HX.  It's a thread about trolls.

[rebbrown]

Anyone with a shield is near impervous to a horse xbow. The problem is that most people wanna run around with a 2h sword and plate - which a horse xbow counters. Just like any light cavalry, a horse xbow can stretch out a game - but any sane admin would simply slay/kick/ban such a player. Also, a decent HA completely annihilates any horse xbow unless you have two loaded xbows on you and pull off a magical double hit.

[Rumblood]

But the real root issue here is what I originally stated in my first post, which is that "HX has no sensible counter". 

Yes it does. 

[rebbrown]

Yes it does. 

I now just try to kill the HA's horse and leave him for the lancers to deal with. Same with heavy tincan cav - 2-4 bolts in the right places finishes off the horse and renders him pretty useless for the remainder of the round as he 1) is trampled by other cav 2) is too far away from the action and gets cut down before rejoining his team.

As soon as I see 2 HA's together, I just run for the hills btw. Fuck that shit.

[Leman_Russ]

Yes it does. 

No point in arguing with him, hes an idiot. 

[Slamz]

Yes it does. 

No it doesn't.

Some people say to do something like a pike/archer combo.  That just means they can't easily kill you.  You still can't kill them because they can easily avoid you.  That's not a "counter".

Some have said HA but the reason SS went HX is because it's more effective overall.  If you want to really counter HX, your best bet is to play another HX, which further escalates the problem.

[Gricks]

Anyone with a shield is near impervous to a horse xbow.

No they aren't. They bump you and turn around and shoot you on the ground.

[Rumblood]

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

Some have said HA but the reason SS went HX is because it's more effective overall.  If you want to really counter HX, your best bet is to play another HX, which further escalates the problem.

No it isn't.

"Countering" means taking on someone who is trying to kill you. It doesn't mean being able to kill a player who stays away from combat and goes 0-0 for a round. You go HX vs HX you are on even ground. You are just as likely to be dehorsed as the other guy. FYI, being dehorsed is a death sentence for HX (but I wouldn't have to say this to someone using the class).
HX have a very very short effective range and with the crossbow you use, shooting from the side is stupid and rarely kills because you don't get the speed bonus that is the killer. To be effective, they have to use the speed bonus, and they have to be close enough to be accurate, and compensate for the rapid bolt drop and pronounced arc.
Any decent archer will win vs HX, period. Dehorse them, then pew them to death on the ground. They can't run, they can't reload, they die. (Or just let lancer cav take them out)

Oh wait, there aren't any archers on the servers.

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