Author Topic: the horse crossbowman problem/motf  (Read 11102 times)

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Offline Rumblood

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2012, 05:41:01 pm »
+2
Infantry could always, oh I don't know, stick with your archers and keep them from getting lanced in the back while they are shooting at the Horse Xbow. But hey, Rambo can't be bothered. It's easier to complain on the forums.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2012, 07:11:06 pm »
0
I just posted this in another thread, but I think they should make the turn radius/agility of the horse diminished while you are reloading.  Or make it so that it takes longer to reload on horse than on foot.  Polearms swing 30% slower on horseback.  Maybe reload should be 30% longer on horse. 

Ideally I'd leave reload time the same and just reduce your turning agility while reloading.

Or more people would go horse archer to be able to combat horse crossbows.
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Offline Kyza

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2012, 07:36:19 pm »
+2
Infantry could always, oh I don't know, stick with your archers and keep them from getting lanced in the back while they are shooting at the Horse Xbow. But hey, Rambo can't be bothered. It's easier to complain on the forums.

I'm confused.

The issue is not that the HX kills 15 people at the end of the round.  The issue is that the HX stays miles away, running and weaving at massive +3 Arabian speed, drawing out the round.  You try hit a horse, at range, moving at that speed.  How will infantry sticking with archers change this fact?

The ask is to spawn motf, so it actually gives the infantry and archers a way to end the round without twiddling their thumbs for 2-3 min.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 07:37:59 pm by Kyza »

Offline Rumblood

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2012, 09:52:56 pm »
-1
I'm confused.

Not surprising as there are two different conversations.

MOTF needs to be fixed for the delay issue, regardless of class.

L2Play is for all the people calling to nerf the HX class.

Quote
You try hit a horse, at range, moving at that speed.

I do it all the time. Ask the cavalry who shout out my name asking me to stop.  :shock:
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 09:54:25 pm by Rumblood »
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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2012, 09:55:34 pm »
+1
You don't shoot +3 arabians who are actively trying to juke you from getting a bead on them (as they are reloading).  Maybe if they are within 10-20 feet, otherwise you're not doing it consistently.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2012, 10:42:04 pm »
0
So what if it takes 5-6 arrows to hit them at range? And I'm talking 150 yards, not 10-20 feet. All you have to do is bring down their horse. A grounded HX is a dead HX. If you can't hit a horse, there is a problem.

I use a tatar bow with over 160 WPF preferred. And I'm sure that the 10 PD archers can't hit anything beyond 20 feet. But if you want a hard hitting build that also is accurate, you can ask WarKittenz for one.  Trust me, it can be done if 1: the archer bothers, and 2: somebody watches their back while they are focused 150 yards down range.
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Offline Slamz

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2012, 11:47:05 pm »
+1
Might as well ask archers why they don't stick together rather than run off and do their own "rambo".  I probably protect archers more than just about anyone and 19 times out of 20 I end up guarding one archer because no two of them will stand within 20 feet of each other.

At any rate, archer vs HX is not a question of accuracy.  You might as well have PD 10 because given the agility of the HX, the only thing you can do is throw arrows downrange and hope they accidentally dodge into your shot.  If you're "aiming" then you're aiming for one of the 10 possible places he could be by the time your arrow reaches him -- did he go left fast?  left slow?  right fast?  right slow?  Did he stop?  Did he start?  Did he turn away?  Turn towards?  On a horse with that much riding skill, he could be in lots of places real quick.

Meanwhile your agility is about one tenth of his.  He can more reliably shoot at you than you can shoot at him.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2012, 11:53:18 pm »
-1
Leave the archery to the archers  :rolleyes: We will leave our backs to you  :arrow:
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Offline MrPink44

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2012, 02:35:05 am »
+1
Not that it matters and apparently these forums are full of a bunch of 5 year old kids with no way to accept or counter point an argument. But let me throw in my 2 cents to the issue as I see it. Yes: MoTF is horribly broken and obviously needs a fix/alteration to improve the effectiveness of it. A static spawn timer would cure and or alleviate almost 99% of these problems especially on a lot of the NA1 "NASCAR Maps" as we dub them where teams chase each other for half the round before turning to face what is remaining. As for the "Horse Xbow Problem" as it has been stated this is how I see it. A) It's a class as viable as any other class and when played properly is very effective (i.e. counter cav, archer, HA) Therefore to suggest nerfing the class to appease our own selfish ego's would in essence perpetuate a lot of what has been dong wrongfully in the game already. However, I do feel they can be slightly imbalanced with the high level of acceleration/Maneuver of the Arabian coupled with the horse "bump" dmg makes for some retarded end round clutches. But that is a different post entirely. B) The general attitude of the people playing the class themselves is pretty much the pits I have seen many of them type in all chat taunting people saying they were legitimately there to pretty much piss people off. Now, while the class itself does not necessarily need a nerf there needs to be a serious re-defining of what it means to "delay" in my opinion. As stated in the NA rule set is "engaging the enemy as per your classes tactics dictate" to paraphrase this includes "kiting, surprise attacks, and general hit and run tactics". Fair enough I can agree with those rules they are pretty cut and dry but when these guys are "playing to their class" they are being as obnoxiously close to breaking the rules without crossing the line. With 2 mins left on the clock and generally anywhere from 5-10+ players still alive these guys are practically spitting in the face of everyone playing the game. Admins and players all in one we're all in the same boat, we all want to just get to the next round because no one wants to be that guy who got jumped to shit in the first round of a risk game and ends up having to watch the 3 hour sluggfest between the last 2 people. We want to continue playing and while they may be "playing to their class" they are wasting everyone's time playing out a round with no probable chance of winning. So while the class may not be inherently flawed the players themselves kinda are I have seen plenty of HA's and HX's like Rohyp take the honorable rout and dismount when there was no chance and if this was carried out by everyone playing HX I'd be happy. Again this comes back to a MoTF fix that would alleviate this issue. What I really don't like seeing is retarded bundle of sticks posts with childish responses from people the people who are supposed to kind of be the ones in control and impartial to a point. Now, as adults can we guide this discussion back to a balance issue and a matter of intentional douchbaggery rather than bicker and fight to a point where the original focus of this post is completely lost?

P.S. Any Dev. input would be greatly appreciated as to why or why not this kind of change has been implemented would be nice.
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2012, 02:46:31 am »
0
Not that it matters and apparently these forums are full of a bunch of 5 year old kids with no way to accept or counter point an argument. But let me throw in my 2 cents to the issue as I see it. Yes: MoTF is horribly broken and obviously needs a fix/alteration to improve the effectiveness of it. A static spawn timer would cure and or alleviate almost 99% of these problems especially on a lot of the NA1 "NASCAR Maps" as we dub them where teams chase each other for half the round before turning to face what is remaining. As for the "Horse Xbow Problem" as it has been stated this is how I see it. A) It's a class as viable as any other class and when played properly is very effective (i.e. counter cav, archer, HA) Therefore to suggest nerfing the class to appease our own selfish ego's would in essence perpetuate a lot of what has been dong wrongfully in the game already. However, I do feel they can be slightly imbalanced with the high level of acceleration/Maneuver of the Arabian coupled with the horse "bump" dmg makes for some retarded end round clutches. But that is a different post entirely. B) The general attitude of the people playing the class themselves is pretty much the pits I have seen many of them type in all chat taunting people saying they were legitimately there to pretty much piss people off. Now, while the class itself does not necessarily need a nerf there needs to be a serious re-defining of what it means to "delay" in my opinion. As stated in the NA rule set is "engaging the enemy as per your classes tactics dictate" to paraphrase this includes "kiting, surprise attacks, and general hit and run tactics". Fair enough I can agree with those rules they are pretty cut and dry but when these guys are "playing to their class" they are being as obnoxiously close to breaking the rules without crossing the line. With 2 mins left on the clock and generally anywhere from 5-10+ players still alive these guys are practically spitting in the face of everyone playing the game. Admins and players all in one we're all in the same boat, we all want to just get to the next round because no one wants to be that guy who got jumped to shit in the first round of a risk game and ends up having to watch the 3 hour sluggfest between the last 2 people. We want to continue playing and while they may be "playing to their class" they are wasting everyone's time playing out a round with no probable chance of winning. So while the class may not be inherently flawed the players themselves kinda are I have seen plenty of HA's and HX's like Rohyp take the honorable rout and dismount when there was no chance and if this was carried out by everyone playing HX I'd be happy. Again this comes back to a MoTF fix that would alleviate this issue. What I really don't like seeing is retarded bundle of sticks posts with childish responses from people the people who are supposed to kind of be the ones in control and impartial to a point. Now, as adults can we guide this discussion back to a balance issue and a matter of intentional douchbaggery rather than bicker and fight to a point where the original focus of this post is completely lost?

P.S. Any Dev. input would be greatly appreciated as to why or why not this kind of change has been implemented would be nice.

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Offline Slamz

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2012, 03:08:28 am »
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Archers on roofs vs Horse crossbow: discuss.
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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2012, 07:25:21 am »
0
Infantry could always, oh I don't know, stick with your archers and keep them from getting lanced in the back while they are shooting at the Horse Xbow. But hey, Rambo can't be bothered. It's easier to complain on the forums.

This is the case so many times its not funny.  I went full xbow this gen, and 4 or 5 different rounds in the last couple of days it came down me (an xbow) and 3 other melee vs a HX.  Instead of sticking in a group with pointy sticks and someone meatshielding for me to shoot down the horse... everyone abandons me and runs off by themselves trying to poke the horse.

PEOPLE.

YOUR RANGED WILL KILL THE HORSE.

STOP BEING STUPID.

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2012, 07:55:10 am »
+1
I just coded wall bounce for rageball so learn to format your wall of text or I just bounce off, not reading.

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2012, 07:06:48 pm »
0
Well, good to know posting in the forums is completely useless then. I was trying to bring the argument back into some semblance of sanity but I guess that was a waste. I guess my only question is why hasn't there been a change to MotF even though we have screamed for it. As for the horse Xbow argument no we can't nerf a class because a few douches in the game but we need to take away their ability to waste everyone's time.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: the horse crossbowman problem/motf
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2012, 09:02:13 pm »
0
Not that it matters and apparently these forums are full of a bunch of 5 year old kids with no way to accept or counter point an argument. But let me throw in my 2 cents to the issue as I see it. Yes: MoTF is horribly broken and obviously needs a fix/alteration to improve the effectiveness of it. A static spawn timer would cure and or alleviate almost 99% of these problems especially on a lot of the NA1 "NASCAR Maps" as we dub them where teams chase each other for half the round before turning to face what is remaining. As for the "Horse Xbow Problem" as it has been stated this is how I see it. A) It's a class as viable as any other class and when played properly is very effective (i.e. counter cav, archer, HA) Therefore to suggest nerfing the class to appease our own selfish ego's would in essence perpetuate a lot of what has been dong wrongfully in the game already. However, I do feel they can be slightly imbalanced with the high level of acceleration/Maneuver of the Arabian coupled with the horse "bump" dmg makes for some retarded end round clutches. But that is a different post entirely. B) The general attitude of the people playing the class themselves is pretty much the pits I have seen many of them type in all chat taunting people saying they were legitimately there to pretty much piss people off. Now, while the class itself does not necessarily need a nerf there needs to be a serious re-defining of what it means to "delay" in my opinion. As stated in the NA rule set is "engaging the enemy as per your classes tactics dictate" to paraphrase this includes "kiting, surprise attacks, and general hit and run tactics". Fair enough I can agree with those rules they are pretty cut and dry but when these guys are "playing to their class" they are being as obnoxiously close to breaking the rules without crossing the line. With 2 mins left on the clock and generally anywhere from 5-10+ players still alive these guys are practically spitting in the face of everyone playing the game. Admins and players all in one we're all in the same boat, we all want to just get to the next round because no one wants to be that guy who got jumped to shit in the first round of a risk game and ends up having to watch the 3 hour sluggfest between the last 2 people. We want to continue playing and while they may be "playing to their class" they are wasting everyone's time playing out a round with no probable chance of winning. So while the class may not be inherently flawed the players themselves kinda are I have seen plenty of HA's and HX's like Rohyp take the honorable rout and dismount when there was no chance and if this was carried out by everyone playing HX I'd be happy. Again this comes back to a MoTF fix that would alleviate this issue. What I really don't like seeing is retarded bundle of sticks posts with childish responses from people the people who are supposed to kind of be the ones in control and impartial to a point. Now, as adults can we guide this discussion back to a balance issue and a matter of intentional douchbaggery rather than bicker and fight to a point where the original focus of this post is completely lost?

P.S. Any Dev. input would be greatly appreciated as to why or why not this kind of change has been implemented would be nice.
Well, good to know posting in the forums is completely useless then. I was trying to bring the argument back into some semblance of sanity but I guess that was a waste. I guess my only question is why hasn't there been a change to MotF even though we have screamed for it. As for the horse Xbow argument no we can't nerf a class because a few douches in the game but we need to take away their ability to waste everyone's time.

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