Secondary mode for bows

[Son Of Odin]

I don't think you can compare those two things.
Why the hell not?

The secondary mode of halberds contains blunt damage, instead of cutting damage, which makes is much more useful against armored targets
Well isn't that the point when archer takes two different quivers of arrows too? Pierce does more damage to heavy armor and cut makes more to light armored ones. This is the point here??!!!

So to prevent half of the server lying around on the battlefield due to drastically increased amounts of long, fast and hart hitting blunt weapons, you have to make the secondary mode inferior to the primary mode.
So to prevent half of the server being OP'd on the battlefield by archers due to drastically increased amounts of multiarrowing fast and hard hitting pierce and cut arrows, you have to make the secondary mode inferior to the primary mode


Concerning arrows things are totally different!
No they are not!

I don't see any reason why you should get punished for switching between the items you have equipped. It's like saying "If a shieldman switches from his sword to his hammer to fight a tincan, the hammer should have lowered damage, because he already has a sword"... eeerrr wut? 
There you are talking about a shielder who switches WEAPONS to fight different opponents. Are you really thinking that you can compare weapon switch to switching arrows? Think about the upkeep aspect of this comparison for example. Shielder changing weapons really isn't that common. I don't do that with my shielder alt, I carry only one 1h weapon. It definetly isn't comparable to changing your arrows because you don't change the WEAPON. You basically change only the damage type you deal with and you get lower upkeep at the same time! I quarantee this would be used by every goddamn archer if this is implemented without any disadvantages. Don't try to trick me with your Konfutse posts Joker...

EDIT: and when I said "bow should draw slowly and make less damage" I meant "bow should draw slower and make less damage". Nothing too big nerf, but definetly something small to prevent overusage and OP:ness.

I don't really see many guys using the polearm secondary modes or any other melee secondary modes besides 1h/2h ones. Also when you have shot all the arrows from your main stack, you should be able to shoot the other stack normally, because you have only one mode usable at that point and it would be just like it is now in that situation. Just my 2 cents...

[Gurnisson]

Actually it will throw away all your arrows and you will stay only with the one you picked up

Which is silly, and it's been like that for ages. Should've been fixed ages ago (is it even possible to fix?)

[Tears of Destiny]

At one brief period in c-RPG history that glitch vanished... Not sure what brought it back.

[Rumblood]

Actually it will throw away all your arrows and you will stay only with the one you picked up

Wrong.

You need to pay attention to the arrows that you stack, and the arrows you are picking up.

There are 16 different types of arrows. Normal, +1, +2, and +3 for each of the 4 types of arrows.

You only have 4 slots. If you don't carry a melee weapon you can only, at most, carry 3 of the 16 types. If you do use a melee weapon, you can only carry, at most, 2 of the 16 types of arrows.

If you pick up any of the different types than you currently are carrying, you will drop whatever you have in your 4th slot. If it is your melee weapon, you will drop that. If it is a full stack of a different type of arrows (say 15 bodkins), you will drop that stack of 15 in favor of the type that you just picked up.

So, if you use MW bodkins, don't pick up regular bodkins if you still have a bunch of arrows left over.

It isn't that the game is dropping your existing arrows, it is that you are deciding to gather a different type than you brought. Since we have slot limits, the game has to choose something for you to drop.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Wrong.

You need to pay attention to the arrows that you stack, and the arrows you are picking up.

There are 16 different types of arrows. Normal, +1, +2, and +3 for each of the 4 types of arrows.

You only have 4 slots. If you don't carry a melee weapon you can only, at most, carry 3 of the 16 types. If you do use a melee weapon, you can only carry, at most, 2 of the 16 types of arrows.

If you pick up any of the different types than you currently are carrying, you will drop whatever you have in your 4th slot. If it is your melee weapon, you will drop that. If it is a full stack of a different type of arrows (say 15 bodkins), you will drop that stack of 15 in favor of the type that you just picked up.

So, if you use MW bodkins, don't pick up regular bodkins if you still have a bunch of arrows left over.

It isn't that the game is dropping your existing arrows, it is that you are deciding to gather a different type than you brought. Since we have slot limits, the game has to choose something for you to drop.

Sometimes it still happens, even when you take the right arrows....stop playing mr teacher all the time will you? I know how it should work

Btw, it was actually meant as a joke if you didn't see the   -->    <--

[Joker86]

There you are talking about a shielder who switches WEAPONS to fight different opponents. Are you really thinking that you can compare weapon switch to switching arrows? Think about the upkeep aspect of this comparison for example. Shielder changing weapons really isn't that common. I don't do that with my shielder alt, I carry only one 1h weapon. It definetly isn't comparable to changing your arrows because you don't change the WEAPON. You basically change only the damage type you deal with and you get lower upkeep at the same time! I quarantee this would be used by every goddamn archer if this is implemented without any disadvantages. Don't try to trick me with your Konfutse posts Joker...

Sorry, but I am still not convinced.

It's not about changing WEAPONS or whatever (shields, armours), it's about changing the ITEMS you use in different slots. You are always free to change between different shields, throwing weapons and melee weapons.

And if you would have two different melee weapons, who have the same length and speed, but one deals cutting damage and the other blunt damage, you would again only be switching damage type, like you are claiming in your post. But you are not. You are switching items. Exactly like arrows. The fact that only few to none players have two one handed weapons doesn't make my example invalid. If you don't like the example with weapons, take two shields. You are allowed to switch them, you don't need to wait until the first is broken to use the second one.

Changing arrow types: two different items, different upkeep according to the effectivity of the item
Changing halberd damage: one single item with two different damage modes. Both modes must be of euqal effectivity concerning the upkeep, and as blunt damage is the "better" mode with more advantages, the damage and speed got lowered.

It's so easy.

Or please tell me what happens to the upkeep aspect of balancing when using different arrows?

You just see that it's done that way with one weapon, and you assume that it must be done the same way with another weapon, completely ignoring that the items are different.

You can also just tell me where it is OP to be able to switch freely between the items you pay upkeep for. Having two stacks of arrows is not OP, but having one stack arrows and one bodkins makes the bodkins OP? 

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Joker, the thing is a melee char can equip maybe a sword and an pickaxe. Thus he has cut and pierce damage and can decide, according to the armour of his next target whether he is going to use the pierce or the cut weapon.

An archer can equip two stacks of arrows, one bodkins and one tatar for example. Means one with pierce and one with cut, just like the melee guy. What the archer can't do is switch between his cut and his pierce arrows. He has to shoot his first quiver before he can use the second one. To be useful you would have to aim for all the heavy targets first, until your bodkins are gone and then aim for the light targets when you have only tatars left. This means you can never adapt to the situation. So you either ignore the incoming light guy cause it's a waste to shoot bodkins into him or you just waste all the pierce arrows for him.

For someone with almost no armour you might need 2 bodkin arrows but only 1 cut arrow due to the armour that effects the dmg etc. That's why some people have 2 weapons. If the guy has plate they switch to pierce/blunt cause cut is more or less a bad decision.
Archers would love to do that, too.
We would pay for both stacks of arrows, once the price for bodkins and once the price for tatars when repair ticks in. But we could choose when to use which kind of arrow


So maybe the right explanation is that archers want to wear 2 different items, namely 2 different quivers and they want to change their quivers just like others change their weapon. It's not about putting in one quiver of bodkins and then switching that one to cut or whatever. You would have to equip 2 different types of arrows.

Clearer now?^^

[Gurnisson]

Archer can already do this. Get a military sickle or a pickaxe with your cut arrows or a fighting axe, langes or hand axe with your bodkins. Remove runchers, use your melee weapon of opposite damage type

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Archer can already do this. Get a military sickle or a pickaxe with your cut arrows or a fighting axe, langes or hand axe with your bodkins. Remove runchers, use your melee weapon of opposite damage type

Make longbow oneslot and I'd love to do that. All I have is my little hammer (which is 0slot and which I use instead of pickaxe cause I had it loomed before that fucking pick became 0slot) which is due to the short range hard to fight with, but still, I fight mostly instead of running away.

[justme]

for secondary mode, i would love to see suicide potion

[Son Of Odin]

My point was that onehander carrying 2x1H weapons is no way a viable option. By carrying 2 different damage type "cheapos" you pay upkeep that would make up 1 weapon which would do the excact same job, even better no matter what the damage type is. Not to mention that 2 weapons tend to be heavier than one weapon. Carrying 2 stacks of different arrows on the other hand is highly viable option. I don't see why anyone would take only one type of them anymore because it is only profit all the way. Other arrows than bodkins = lower upkeep = profit. Able to use cut damage on peasants = profit. Bodkins when that evil platemonster harrasses you = profit.

2 shields? Are you out of your mind??!! Do you have a slightest idea how heavy they are to carry around?

I stop this... I have said what I think about the matter and I have nothing else to add. I just don't agree with you this time Joker

[Torost]

Instead of secondary mode, it should swap arrows like you swap weapons.
Its better to compare it to throwing, where you can change from a pack of throwing knives to a pack of wardarts.

I suspect the hardship of scavenging arrows is keept in the broken state intentionally.
There is really no need for 4 types of arrows, it only screws up scavenging.

Both of these issues are faults/bugs in the game.. and should be corrected if possible.

You do not make money with rusbow and 2xbodkins.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

You do not make money with rusbow and 2xbodkins.

You do ;)


Btw, where is the prob with 4 kinds of arrows? some have more dmg but less ammo and the other way around

[Gurnisson]

Funny how some people state that you don't make money as an archer. I've made just above 70 k from being 2.5 million away from 31 to being 300 k away from it.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

You can make money, even with longbow and 2 stacks of bodkins, but it requires you have multi from time to time^^  otherwise you'll run out of money in a short time