Secondary mode for bows

[Rumblood]

Fine.

But only if ALL weapons get alternate modes where they deal all 3 types of damage scaled accordingly.

Fine, but only if you TRIPLE the upkeep for ALL those melee weapons and TRIPLE the slots used. Archers can't do this without having the stacks and paying the upkeep for it.

[Tears of Destiny]

Nerf Cav!

[Joker86]

Yes this is maybe possible... In the other hand when we think about SECONDARY MODE, it is clear that the other stack of arrows should have some big disadvantages. Just like many melee weapons do. Poleaxe does less damage and is slower when the blunt option is used, even if it doesn't make sense that the same weapon is slower and does worse damage in blunt mode. It is a balance issue and solved like that..

Same should apply to arrows. You take two stacks of arrows, one is main stack and another is secondary. Always when using the secondary one your bow draws slowly and it does less damage. This is tricky thing to balance. Not that simple but doable with some tweaking.

I don't think you can compare those two things.

The secondary mode of halberds contains blunt damage, instead of cutting damage, which makes is much more useful against armored targets (which, I would say, is the majority of targets and infantryman has to deal with), and it would get knockdown. So to prevent half of the server lying around on the battlefield due to drastically increased amounts of long, fast and hart hitting blunt weapons, you have to make the secondary mode inferior to the primary mode.

Concerning arrows things are totally different!

I don't know how the current system works, concerning which of your different quivers counts when, but in the case of archers (and crossbowmen) the weapon and the ammunition are two different items, and you pay with weight, slots and upkeep for your ammunition. If you use better ammunition you pay it with even more upkeep and with fewer shots.

So in my eyes, it doesn't matter at all, if someone is using two big stacks of cheap ammunition, two small stacks of expensive ammunition, or one big stack of cheap and one small stack of expensive ammunition. It is already balanced by the different values for upkeep and shots.

I don't see any reason why you should get punished for switching between the items you have equipped. It's like saying "If a shieldman switches from his sword to his hammer to fight a tincan, the hammer should have lowered damage, because he already has a sword"... eeerrr wut? 

[Fartface]

NTY

[Blueberry Muffin]

(click to show/hide)

I don't think you can compare those two things.

The secondary mode of halberds contains blunt damage, instead of cutting damage, which makes is much more useful against armored targets (which, I would say, is the majority of targets and infantryman has to deal with), and it would get knockdown. So to prevent half of the server lying around on the battlefield due to drastically increased amounts of long, fast and hart hitting blunt weapons, you have to make the secondary mode inferior to the primary mode.

Concerning arrows things are totally different!

I don't know how the current system works, concerning which of your different quivers counts when, but in the case of archers (and crossbowmen) the weapon and the ammunition are two different items, and you pay with weight, slots and upkeep for your ammunition. If you use better ammunition you pay it with even more upkeep and with fewer shots.

So in my eyes, it doesn't matter at all, if someone is using two big stacks of cheap ammunition, two small stacks of expensive ammunition, or one big stack of cheap and one small stack of expensive ammunition. It is already balanced by the different values for upkeep and shots.

I don't see any reason why you should get punished for switching between the items you have equipped. It's like saying "If a shieldman switches from his sword to his hammer to fight a tincan, the hammer should have lowered damage, because he already has a sword"... eeerrr wut? 

Agreed, it isnt something that really requires balancing imo.

[Leshma]

Fine, but only if you TRIPLE the upkeep for ALL those melee weapons and TRIPLE the slots used. Archers can't do this without having the stacks and paying the upkeep for it.

This again...

Dude I pay 1.1K gold for my German GS every 3rd round if I'm lucky. For armor I pay less but it's at least 300 gold per round on average.

Archer using light armor, Rus Bow and two stacks of bodkins makes money. Not much but I know it's possible to make some money using this setup. I know it because I have STF alt and I've managed to ear few grands by playing with this setup. You don't lose money in the long run...

[HELM]

+1 to OP, then add fire arrows, poison arrows, explosive arrows, grappling arrows, nuke beacon arrows, and do the same for bolts except make bolts even more awesome. And increase the maximum ammo held by crossbows. And change the crossbow model to a gun. Please.

Give this man a medal 

[Farrok]

This again...

Dude I pay 1.1K gold for my German GS every 3rd round if I'm lucky. For armor I pay less but it's at least 300 gold per round on average.

Archer using forced to use light armor, Rus Bow and two stacks of bodkins makes money. Not much but I know it's possible to make some money using this setup. I know it because I have STF alt and I've managed to ear few grands by playing with this setup. You don't lose money in the long run...

its always funny to hear that they can make money with rus+bodkins...i loose money even with horn bow + 1 stack of khergit mostly because i need to repair my arrows all/most rounds...every 3-4 rounds i dont need to pay for it, thoughi think i am quite unlucky by that matter and i know most archers don`t have the problem ...i have more upkeep when i choose an decent onehander, but i am doing fine to beat the crap outa tincans with the fighting pick.


armor isnt an upkeep problem...though i´m forced to use light armor (padded jack with straw hat) to be accurate enough, but even with my melee char i dont wear heavy armor. armor is only additional, weapons to kill are the important things and the upkeep of that should be mostly the same for all highend weapons (1h+shield, 2hand, polearm, bow+arrows, 2 stacks of throwing crap, you can safe money when go 1h without shield or bow without arrows )




i like the idea because its stupid to only have archer the disadvantage of not choosing the weapon you have equipped...every other class can choose their different weapons...onehander, twohander, thrower, etc.
its stupid to say no shielder you cant use your second shield only when the first one is destroyed, no twohand+thrower you cant throw because your first weapons is the sword...



but my suggestion is: delete archery class(and with that xbow and throwing too) from the game, less problems for twohandspammers because than they can make more (team)kills and the decent melee twohanders don`t fear to get an duel interrupted by flying crap and the forums will get quiet because no one starts a nerfthread about archery anymore.

[Rumblood]

This again...

Dude I pay 1.1K gold for my German GS every 3rd round if I'm lucky. For armor I pay less but it's at least 300 gold per round on average.

Archer using light armor, Rus Bow and two stacks of bodkins makes money. Not much but I know it's possible to make some money using this setup. I know it because I have STF alt and I've managed to ear few grands by playing with this setup. You don't lose money in the long run...

'

Hey, then don't ask for extra shit for your weapon and then complain about the extra upkeep for it. You pay fine for what you have now.

[Leshma]

I wasn't the first one asking for it. I'm fine with what I have atm. Archers do not deserve buff atm. If you buff archers please buff everyone else. That's my point.

[Blueberry Muffin]

Its not really even a buff, melee players can use 2 types of weapons if they want, why cant archers use 2 types of ammo?

Anways, Tenne(the newbie dev) says he will put it forwards to the dev team, we will see what happens..

[Joker86]

Can someone explain me the mechanic behind using different quivers?

Is it that the first slot with quivers counts, and all the other slots just add ammo? So that I can use bodkins as first slot (15 shots), and then fill up everything with ordinary arrows (24 shots), resulting in having 15 + 24 + 24 = 63 bodkin shots, but only paying 5,058 + 161 + 161 = 5380 gold, which means I have 18 shots more than with 3 quivers of bodkins, and pay much less than the needed 15174 gold upkeep?

If it really works like this, I think infantry player should shut the fuck up about buffing archers.

And even if it works differently: they pay upkeep for their arrows, and they suffer from less ammo for good arrows, so it's only FAIR to let them choose ammo. By the way the buff effect would be minimal... 

[Rumblood]

Joker, it uses the top slot first. When the bodkins are gone, it drops down to your next stack (my 2nd stack is +3 Arrows). You can't choose or switch them after you spawn. If you shoot all your bodkins, and start shooting arrows, then pick up a bodkin off the ground, it will shoot the one bodkin you picked up, then go back to arrows again.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I think it'd be a nice feature, I'm an armored archer since today (heavy armor archer is fucking awesome) and I'd not mind this feature what so ever, it also makes sense, throwers are allowed to change their stacks too. :\

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Joker, it uses the top slot first. When the bodkins are gone, it drops down to your next stack (my 2nd stack is +3 Arrows). You can't choose or switch them after you spawn. If you shoot all your bodkins, and start shooting arrows, then pick up a bodkin off the ground, it will shoot the one bodkin you picked up, then go back to arrows again.

Actually it will throw away all your arrows and you will stay only with the one you picked up