The decrease of diversity of units on the battlefield.

[Tears of Destiny]

What does this have to do with the original topic?

Retards...

[Leshma]

Retards...

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[Aseldo]

It took me 9 arrow hits to kill oldknight in his heraldic mail with tabard. Sure on an open map I can shoot him off his horse and circle him till kingdom come. But the likelihood is that a team mate will come to help, or several. It also took me 18 arrow hits to kill 2 guys in red tunic over mail. One of them I headshotted in a great helm. Fact is that switching targets isn't all that helpful because the damage output is low. They aren't mobile snipers. They should either have decent damage, but poor accuracy, or good accuracy but lower damage. Right now they have neither and are pretty crap with both.

When cav get an HA on their tail and you shoot arrow after arrow into their body (not horses) and they don't bother to swerve, change direction and get away, you know there's a problem.

Ranged have always been key in taking down horses. When it took 3-4 arrows from a hornbow to down a courser, they were very important as even one arrow had a good effect. Now there's no point in aiming for horses especially with the very buggy head hitboxes. Even worse for HA who used to concentrate on cav but now should just hunt very light inf instead.

This and everything about it.

[Mtemtko]

What does this have to do with the original topic?

Retards...

Unit diversity, efficency of a class, how many people playing that class.

I hope its not too hard for you to notice anything related to the original topic.

[Tears of Destiny]

Unit diversity, efficency of a class, how many people playing that class.

I hope its not too hard for you to notice anything related to the original topic.

It is hard to see how one class requires more skill then another is relevant though, especially considering that arguement has been proven fruitless since the start of warband, and neither changes minds nor goes anywhere.

[Overdriven]

It is hard to see how one class requires more skill then another is relevant though, especially considering that arguement has been proven fruitless since the start of warband, and neither changes minds nor goes anywhere.

Point. But I think it spanned out of 'ranged must be nerfed because it requires less skill'. And so began the argument...again.

[Mtemtko]

It is hard to see how one class requires more skill then another is relevant though, especially considering that arguement has been proven fruitless since the start of warband, and neither changes minds nor goes anywhere.

¸

Well you have a point, but nevertheless im just trying to point out how useless horse-archers are now, no matter how good/bad the HAs luck/skill is.

[bonekuukkeli]

Well, I don't agree with you since imho, melee has an almost infinite skill ceiling.

As a ranged player you shoot stuff. You can get damn good at shooting stuff, but that's still what you do.

In a melee you play against someone. And as people learn new tricks and skills people adapt to that and develop their own which people adapt to and... It never really stops (although it has slowed down quite a lot lately since combat is so slow).

Yes. And it's so infinite that when you learn to dodge arrows and use enviroment, you can challenge archers and then archer has infinite skill ceiling as well. They need to learn melee at that point and are much weaker in it than melee. Happy? Go and try it. Everybody else seems to be doing that against my ranged guy (when I play one) and I do it now daily against others with ease. It's not really that hard.

Melee can challenge any of 3 (cav, melee, ranged) quite easily and deal with any of them at least decently no matter what situation is. Only open fields might be problem and even then there's shielders, cav distrubting archers or luring their fire so melee can go near and start slashing.

If good melee comes to archer, archer can't do much else than run or try to be lucky in melee.

There was nothing else wrong before. Only roofcamping and even that was manageable.

To me. Melee have been easiest of all 3. I have "weapon for every situation" if I don't mindlessly rush and I think before I act. As archer I was attacked by cav or melee all the time and I really didn't have weapons to deal in melee other than run away and hope that cav doesn't pick me off. As cav it's quite decent as well, like melee but I tend to charge too much and die hopelessly.

[Malaclypse]

One thing I liked about Native (where no class had more than 16 strength) was the diversity that each class held. Infantry and most cavalry had the option of using shields, throwing, 1hand, 2hand, polearms. Archers and crossbowman alike were still able to compete in melee while being effective at ranged. Some of the infantry classes even had a few riding thrown in. In cRPG you see more crazy builds, 13 shield, 13 athletics, 10 PS tanks, but less balanced builds with an eye for utility, unfortunately, because the way the mod is set up, utility builds do not pay. It makes more sense to just stack in one direction, go full archer, full 2hand, full throwing, etc. Though at least some of the issue is just player choice. Archers choosing to not invest in any power strike, infantry choosing not to bother with 3-4 power throw.

[polkafranzi]

Love this shit - only time i ever played my old friendcher and i never QQ'd once.

http://www.freeworldgroup.com/games4/gameindex/bowman2.htm

[Adamar]

Melee is by far the easiest class by my experience, thats why I chose to play a more specialized class as an archer, since I have to be good both in range and melee. But then the nerfs started kicking in and I keep getting killed by people with a lot less skill than me in melee, because my archer can't even wound them eficiently before they close in. This makes ranged useless and turns crpg into a melee centred mod. Just like 80%+ of the players want it. And sadly native remains as a winner when it comes to class ballance.

[Glyph]

Melee is by far the easiest class by my experience, thats why I chose to play a more specialized class as an archer, since I have to be good both in range and melee. But then the nerfs started kicking in and I keep getting killed by people with a lot less skill than me in melee, because my archer can't even wound them eficiently before they close in. This makes ranged useless and turns crpg into a melee centred mod. Just like 80%+ of the players want it. And sadly native remains as a winner when it comes to class ballance.

becasue those guys were payed to make a good game, and they'd be doing it all day, with probably(and i hope so) a degree of some sort which shows they can really be good gamemakers, and i think your not giving our dev team enoguh credits for what they're doing for this community, so STFU and GTFO, if you want to have a rangefest go buy wFaS, i know i'll stay here with my cavfest.

[Adamar]

becasue those guys were payed to make a good game, and they'd be doing it all day, with probably(and i hope so) a degree of some sort which shows they can really be good gamemakers, and i think your not giving our dev team enoguh credits for what they're doing for this community, so STFU and GTFO, if you want to have a rangefest go buy wFaS, i know i'll stay here with my cavfest.

I do give credit to the dev team, especialy when it comes to adding unnecessary patches that end up gimping all ranged classes. And I shouldn't have to GTFO just because my longbow sucks now. What if CRPG sudenly had a feature that gimped your class? Would you GTFO?

[polkafranzi]

I do give credit to the dev team, especialy when it comes to adding unnecessary patches that end up gimping all ranged classes. And I shouldn't have to GTFO just because my longbow sucks now. What if CRPG sudenly had a feature that gimped your class? Would you GTFO?

No, cav for example just adapted to the huge lance angle nerf.  Adapt ftw.

[Adamar]

How do I adapt my longbow to less damage? In this case the weapon is the style.