throwing is broken

[MrShovelFace]

gives us bak te trowin pewpew plox

chesty does 1/20 of my hp with his darts
if he emptied all of his darts in my chest there would be very few left after that

there is no way to deliberately aim for the head with throwing weapons and if you try to then you are wasting precious ammo

[MrShovelFace]

woops

[Tears of Destiny]

He may be stupid in some aspects, but he is smart in others. I would honestly say he is not a "noob cav" though extremely delusional nonetheless for some things.

[Smoothrich]

so many personal attacks in this thread, I am not flinging feces on the virgin mary here, I just think throwing damage was too high pre nerf, one of the biggest flaws in game balance IMO, and is better now.

what do you expect the damage to be like from scrub pierce weapons like darts?  you get a ton of them so i would hardly expect them to be doing arbalest like damage (as they did pre patch)

really my biggest problem is PT stacked people who used heavy throwing axes, and none of these tests or anecdotes refute my point whatsoever, as you are using shittier weapons with less damaging builds.  those things were basically handheld automatic arbalests, and probably still do similar damage, and this is mostly because of the reverted armor soak values.

maybe the balancers would listen to your suggestions if you people weren't so rude and offensive to other points of view, sheesh, now i hope they never fix ranged

also how is saying throwers can do over 100 damage trolling?  PT seems to be 10 percent increase, throwing axes do 45 damage, 10 PT makes it nearly 100 (factor in speed bonus and it will easily clear 100)  and this shit goes through armor just like butter due to whatever urist fucked up.  do you think i'm just lying or trolling when i talk about throwing axes one shotting armored horses hitting them in the side at a slow (or even reverse) trot, and emptying out my HP bar as infantry with poorly aimed ankle hits and stuff?  its awful and thrower spam whenever it is too popular is the number 1 worst thing in this game, even worse than archers IMO, i don't miss that shit at all

[Chestaclese]

so many personal attacks in this thread, I am not flinging feces on the virgin mary here, I just think throwing damage was too high pre nerf, one of the biggest flaws in game balance IMO, and is better now.

what do you expect the damage to be like from scrub pierce weapons like darts?  you get a ton of them so i would hardly expect them to be doing arbalest like damage (as they did pre patch)

really my biggest problem is PT stacked people who used heavy throwing axes, and none of these tests or anecdotes refute my point whatsoever, as you are using shittier weapons with less damaging builds.  those things were basically handheld automatic arbalests, and probably still do similar damage, and this is mostly because of the reverted armor soak values.

maybe the balancers would listen to your suggestions if you people weren't so rude and offensive to other points of view, sheesh, now i hope they never fix ranged

also how is saying throwers can do over 100 damage trolling?  PT seems to be 10 percent increase, throwing axes do 45 damage, 10 PT makes it nearly 100 (factor in speed bonus and it will easily clear 100)  and this shit goes through armor just like butter due to whatever urist fucked up.  do you think i'm just lying or trolling when i talk about throwing axes one shotting armored horses hitting them in the side at a slow (or even reverse) trot, and emptying out my HP bar as infantry with poorly aimed ankle hits and stuff?  its awful and thrower spam whenever it is too popular is the number 1 worst thing in this game, even worse than archers IMO, i don't miss that shit at all

My apologies Smoothrich. I didn't mean to be a jerk heh, I'm just baffled at what are you saying. Statements like "PT seems to be a 10 percent increase" and throwing axes doing over a hundred damage and one shot plated chargers are so far from reality that Tears thought you were being sarcastic. Not even back before the first throwing nerf when you could carry like 30 axes and they did more damage was I able to one shot plated horses. Throwing axes have a quick release speed and some goofy hitboxes but they have the same damage soak as any 44 cut weapon.

You need to rethink what you are writing and come up with some actual facts to support your case. Right now you just sound stupid and delusional.

[Tears of Destiny]

do you think i'm just lying or trolling when i talk about throwing axes one shotting armored horses hitting them in the side at a slow (or even reverse) trot

Trolling.

[BADPLAYERold]

When I used Champion Cataphract it was never 1shot by throwing weapons to the side but alot of the time it got left with 1/10th hp or something like that from just 1 Jarid or the like.
Last patch throwing was imo too strong, people just spammed throwing weapons and they are terribly unfun to fight even if not completely OP. Although I do agree that now the nerf is too far, I don't think it should be reverted to how to was last patch.

[Smoothrich]

powerthrow is a 10 percent increase according to the cRPG wiki (I know how trustworthy those things are) but it certainly seems accurate

They don't one hit horses anymore but last patch it honestly didn't matter how much armor or HP your horse had, 1 throwing axe would do at least 100 HP worth of damage on average.  Keep in mind I'm not talking about plated chargers or mamluks.  My proof is that this shit happened to me every day.. hell it just happened today with some thrower (probably a 10 PT gimmick skip the fun or something) hit my destrier with a hammer and did at least 100 HP damage to it. 

throwing was absurdly OP last patch, hits from nearly any angle would so very very often leave horses at 1/8th or less HP, same as infantry I'm sure there are some tweaks that can be made to bring it more in line (slight buffs all around) but there is a reason all of that stuff got nerfed:  it makes the game much less enjoyable for everyone else.  I know you're good at the class and make it interesting but when there are 10+ throwers everywhere just mowing people down, along with every shielder having PT, I'd rather not play cRPG at all, and I'm sure many people agree

[Chestaclese]

powerthrow is a 10 percent increase according to the cRPG wiki (I know how trustworthy those things are) but it certainly seems accurate

They don't one hit horses anymore but last patch it honestly didn't matter how much armor or HP your horse had, 1 throwing axe would do at least 100 HP worth of damage on average.  Keep in mind I'm not talking about plated chargers or mamluks.  My proof is that this shit happened to me every day.. hell it just happened today with some thrower (probably a 10 PT gimmick skip the fun or something) hit my destrier with a hammer and did at least 100 HP damage to it. 

throwing was absurdly OP last patch, hits from nearly any angle would so very very often leave horses at 1/8th or less HP, same as infantry I'm sure there are some tweaks that can be made to bring it more in line (slight buffs all around) but there is a reason all of that stuff got nerfed:  it makes the game much less enjoyable for everyone else.  I know you're good at the class and make it interesting but when there are 10+ throwers everywhere just mowing people down, along with every shielder having PT, I'd rather not play cRPG at all, and I'm sure many people agree

There has to be some consequence for how fast horses move heh. Cavalry deal out a ton of damage and have such mobility. I'm sure I was killed by just as many horses as I killed and that's a fair ratio for two classes that are suppose to be arch rivals. William the Conqueror lost a ton of horses to throwing weapons when he invaded England but he beasted on.

[MrShine]

Smooth your probably just trolling so it doesn't even pay for me to respond, but I fail to see how a 7 PT build with +1 heavy axes does 40% point blank with speed bonus to me, yet you somehow think that a 9 or 10 PT build from a STF char can do twice as much damage to you, when you and your horse both have more HP and more armor than the examples I clearly showed in the youtube videos. Unless those last 2 to 3 PT suddenly boost damage by 33-50% damage per point, you're talking nonsense.

I'm going to trust the dedicated throwers on what a proper throwing build is instead of your insistence most throwers go 27/12 or 30/9.

Bring some proof to the table with the whining if you want to be taken seriously in the discussion

Besides, heavy cav need some sort of natural enemies.  Archery certainly doesn't do it, and xbows might but they shoot so slowly that when caught in the open they are worse than useless.  Throwers have to be in the thick of it to deal their damage and are hindered by small stack size, but yes they have great potential to deal strong damage because of it.  Frankly even if they did do as much damage as you say with 2 heavy throwing axes to kill your heavy horse, and then 2 to kill you, that's a third of the max stack size they have for the round... to down one dude.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Smooth, today, on my rouncey, I had two throwing axes thrown into the uper side of my horse (should have a light speed bonus), and at least four arrows in it's back, how come my horse was left on over quarter health after that?.. (Which only lasted a minute do to me being distracted by thinking back on your retarded claims and then riding into a hoplite) and if you're dump enough to ride head-on into a thrower you deserve to get onehit.
Also, four throwing lances from my pt 7 build and Vibe has over half health left. D: Is that fucking balanced?

[Gurnisson]

Also, four throwing lances from my pt 7 build and Vibe has over half health left. D: Is that fucking balanced?

Come to eu 3 and throw them at me please. I can't believe that at all.

[Oggrinsky]

In my opinion, throwing ought to be the hard counter for cavalry. It makes sense not only because it is historically accurate but it balances out the overall play field. Throwing should absolutely decimate horses, speed bonus + huge heavy ranged missile should = a very dead horse. Throwing was only a problem a year ago or so before slots were introduced and one could use throwing without any wpf. Those days are gone though and even before the latest patch there were very few throwers and even fewer throwers that invoked fear... Chucky and Chestaclese are the only two that come to mind.

I guess my point is that Crpg needs throwing to be stronger in order to balance out the current cavalry problem. Pikes are humorously ineffective because they require the cavalry to be unaware of an enormous stick waving about in the air. Pikes are cavalry deterrent. Archers used to fill this role, but now head shots are the only effective way to bring down anything. Throwing though... throwing has the potential to be an amazing cavalry counter in the right hands. It's like having a limited amount of pikes that you can throw and is balanced due to the small pool of ammunition available.

To be honest, I don't think you're trolling Smooth. I just think you have a completely biased, cry baby perspective. Throwing should ruin horses. It's not OP, it's a balancing measure. Especially against heavy cavalry. Currently, no one fills the roll of anti-cavalry and as I found out this generation as light cavalry; this lack of a counter leads to ridiculous feeling of invincibility from horseback. It doesn't matter if you're spending 100k on upkeep, the law of counters ought to apply to everyone.

Do you charge directly into spearmen who are aware of you? No? That seems balanced correct? Then why should you be able to charge directly at a thrower who's aware of your presence without risk of losing your horse and your life?

[San]

I completely agree with Oggrinsky. A thrower should not have to waste an entire stack just to kill one person. A thrower has to risk being in a vulnerable state, pretty close to melee and within firing distance of other ranged users. If he hybridizes, he will have much less ammo unless those weapons are also throwing.

I feel that pikemen need to be a hybrid or have a backup weapon in order to be successful against heavier cav by themselves. You only have 1 or maybe 2 hits after stopping a horse. For instance, hoplite needs to switch to a pierce 1h weapon after stopping a horse in order to deal any significant damage, otherwise my anti-cav abilities are greatly hindered.

[seddrik]

My dedicated thrower... is not effective at all and no fun now.  Crunching numbers is all fine and well, but if what was a fun build before, is now a "spam as much as I can in hopes that he is already half dead when i started"...  it is hard to believe that can be called "balanced" or "better" with a straight face.