Increase benefit of each Horse Archery point by 20% - Please read.

[Joker86]

everyone who crys about HAs in this days is a big fat useless idiot.

Everyone who combines running away with fighting over safe distance is a coward without balls.


Now we insulted each other and nothing is gained.


I am not crying about horse archers, but I am definitely against a buff, they're good how they are.

[Remy]

You can't harm shielders, but they also can't harm you. And it's not like your mobility and your ability to fight over distance don't allow you to engage the shielder at any later moment, when he is not blocking towards your direction.

And the point about all the ranged fighters still applies for all the other classes, too. Everyone, except of shielders perhaps, can easily be killed by ranged fighters.

I want horse archers to tell me a class, if they meet it at the end of the round alone, letting them no chance of survival, let alone winning this fight.

And I want horse archers to list me up the equipment they need besides the basic horse archer stuff to not be defenseless against other classes, or even to be able to deal with them.

So what if the same applies to all other classes? You cannot argue that HA have no good counter simply because they share common weakness of all cavalry or unshielded players...

Secondly, I find your proposed end round scenario silly. No class when faced with a 1 vs 1 is completely doomed, especially not with limited ammo and incurred damage. Mistakes can be made, the enemy can exploit the terrain or map to his advantage, etc.

HA dehorsed at end of round vs infantry...who wins?
HA out of arrows vs infantry...?
HA facing shielder w/spear with only a small amount of arrows?
HA facing heavy cavalry at end of round?
HA facing infantry in building or obstacles at end of round?
HA facing ranged infantry with good position at end of round?

Finally add any melee equipment as non HA things that we need to avoid being slaughtered in melee combat.

I would also like to note that as with many other threads, I find comparing 1 vs 1 situations pointless. In the standard battle round, 1 vs 1 combat makes up only a small portion of combat, we are as far as I know not discussing dueling. 

[Cris]

I wont reply to every argument because Joker86 you know how many times we've been through this is the history of cRPG 

Now, a few quick points as form of replies to post:

-Ranged infantery should always kill a horse archer if they are good.

-About equipment (looking at you joker ) Upkeep is huge for HA, a perfect example or archery nerf affecting HAs... I totally agree that footarchers lost almost no money with upkeep, so arrows braking more often is great to balanace that. But it is a huge kick for HAs, who already pay more than most people (Ive played melee characters and melee cav, so i know the costs)

-Horse archers are limited in their targets if you want to make kills (and dont we all?) - a HA will take most of his arrows to kill someone in decent armor, specially if they are mounted and riding away.

____


But anyway. There is a reason why I said make a skip the fun horse archer and play it before replying here. Because some people clearly do not understand that this 20% boost per point to HA skill would do.

It would NOT increase our damage (at least not in a way that would make any change to our kills). We would still take 5+ arrows to kill anyone in armor.

It would NOT increase the accuracy of people who stop before shooting. At low speed the penalty makes almost no difference, if they cant hit you now, 20% increase will mean those who miss now will still miss, its more of a timing error than reticule error.

It would NOT mean Horse Archers would kill more horses. Horses are huge and already easy to kill for any HA that have been playing for more than 5 minutes. (specially since the shield magnet fix).


It would ONLY mean, that shooting at speed (which is what horse archery is all about, if you dont agree you might aswell just go on foot with a 100 accuracy bow) would be 20% less random.

If you try a horse archery build, you will see that 20% is fair and by no means accurate, the reticule would still be 'HUGE' 

Also, if this headshot damage increase and body damage decrease change really comes our way, this 20%, this will not be even a buff, because even with 20% headshot will be just as tricky at speed.

As always, Test, the post.

Cris.


Ps. Sorry for kinda ignoring Horse throwers in the main post  My support goes to those brave men who take the least accurate forme of ranged weapom, with the shortest range and then go on a horse. You have my respect 

[Ujin]

everyone who crys about HAs in this days is a big fat useless idiot.

did you just call Cris an idiot ? :0

[gazda]

there is no way to balance horse archers in this mod

[Arrowblood]

Everyone who combines running away with fighting over safe distance is a coward without balls.


Now we insulted each other and nothing is gained.


I am not crying about horse archers, but I am definitely against a buff, they're good how they are.

i cant run away with 0 athletics.

[Arrowblood]

did you just call Cris an idiot ? :0

ofc not. i mean horse archers deal with so a small damage, so that its useless to say something is wrong. but i didnt say someone said something wrong. and then i took a n a r r o w to t h e k n e e

[Cris]

This boost would be very nice now that body shots do less damage

[Cris]

/bump

[ShinySpoons]

The ideas make sense, only problem I foresee as Cris says is the horse xbowman problem. Personally, I find them to be more annoying and more deadly (due to the high dmg of xbows in comparison to bows).  A pure horse xbowman can have 5 HA, 10 riding, 10 wpf (I think). They're already very accurate and with a aiming buff to HA they'll be even more deadly.

So unless one can separate between the two I feel there shouldn't be an accuracy buff (though I really do want one, my archer used to be an HA but he got really sad at bouncing off armour).

[Overdriven]

I now fully support this.

[BlindGuy]

 I mean: which class is as good against horse archers as horse archers are against infantry? Answer: ....

Archers: They RAPE Horsearchers
Shielders with Javs: Absolutely rape all cav.
Aware players: rape all unaware players.


You dont care about balance Joker, you only care that your hero class has an easy ride. Get fucked.

[Joker86]

Archers: They RAPE Horsearchers
Shielders with Javs: Absolutely rape all cav.
Aware players: rape all unaware players.


You dont care about balance Joker, you only care that your hero class has an easy ride. Get fucked.

And what is my hero class?

But sure, you got me on this one. You are totally right, if the horse archer decides to not ride away from enemy archers or throwers who try to attack him, he gets raped the same way like infantry that decides not to ride away from a horse archers who tries to attack them... HEY! WAIT A MINUTE!   

And being unaware is of no interest at all, because it is the "worst" possible scenario and should not be taken into account during balancing. Except the case that even an unaware player could survive a carefully aimed attack from any other class, which shouldn't be the case.

I don't like if I write a really large post about why I think horse archers must not be made too powerful, and still I get accused of only wanting to push my own class? 

If archers are you worst enemy, then the new patch allowed you to live longer than usual, which lets you shoot more arrows than before, in difference to the archers, who live the same time, or if anything, shorter now. Which means all in all that the damage debuff didn't hit you as hard as the archers. Rejoice! 

[Cris]

joker that is plain silliness, really.

HAs that live longer is because they know how to ride, we still get the speedbonus on horse agaisnt us...personally, since ive been a HA, ive usually managed to be in the last few to die, thanks to my courser. Ive done the same as melee cav too. Its called calculated risk.

this new lower body damage, plus lower damage (20%) which is the price we pay for being on a horses [did you know that btw?) its a huge nerf for HAs, plus the only chance of getting real kills is with a headshot, something very hard to do while moving, its a huge nerf...

How can you possibly say we should rejoice? We can pretty much only kill other HAs and peasants without using half our arrows.


So again, a 20% bonus increase to our accuracy would be nice, but its nothing close to makes us powerful, not even a little bit.

Besides, i can recall very clealy how you typed in caps in the ingame chat how you "LOVE" the archer nerf...We get it, you hate archers, so you hate archers on horses even more. That doesnt mean that we are balanced this like this.

I would love to see how melee players who hate archers would like to have to hits their low armored enemies 10 times before they die...its really fun to see people complaing about Agility spammers being OP, or Str players being OP and so on... that never achieves balance...

Here I posted an idea that goes toward good balance, it doesnt even talk about higher damage, and yet you cannot even see that... It makes you think about what you really want out this skill based game, an easy ride?

[Joker86]

Well, the point is I don't want horse archers to make more kills than they already do, because they have a different role in the team, not pure kill making. I compared them a bit to pikemen - pikemen don't make a lot of kills, and yet they are really important for their team.

I now decided to go hoplite, and I don't know how many really good 2hd fighters I managed to hit stun because they underestimated my reach, and then they got finished off by their real duelling enemies, but still I don't get a single frag (=reputation) point for this. Same with horses, not a single round where I don't stop or kill a horse, and the rider then gets killed afterwards, but almost never by me.

I think horse archers share the same fate. They can kill unarmoured horses, and they can hit stun enemies who are currently fighting, but they won't get many kills, and they shouldn't, as only good archers are actually capable of killing a good horse archer, and this has to be balanced out somehow.

And the "rejoice" thing was not meant that seriously, I hoped the smiley at the end made this clear