New ranged change

[v/onMega]

Well ylca....

And now think in that direction....

Archery gets easier and the same guys scoring awesome k/d now, would score even better.....

Archery can be deadly, it is possible in case u play it right.
If you dont score that well, your playing style is wrong, dont you think?

Its like trying to turnfight in a Fw 190 against a spitfire. Its not gonna happen....because you simply play it wrong.


And as a sidenote...:

How many really good melee players are out there?
Its the same thing there ;-)

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

This mod has the worst community ever.

[Kafein]

Okay, i'll put it this way- statistics doesn't work on a single data point. If one archer is posting great scores yet he's the one archer people keep posting (where are the other archers getting great scores?) then there's an issue, but CRPG logic states "that one guy is good and everyone else sucks, there is nothing wrong with the overall as long as one person can exel" which is the height of ridiculousness.

For my own 2cents, i used to avoid quality archers like martian_manhunter but now i simply ride towards them laughing my ass of as their arrows do less than 5 to 10% damage to me and even less to the horse.

Heh, melee asking for a removal of ladders were asked to "adapt" so I guess this was only very predictable.

The only true statistic we could base a sane debate on is the average W/L ratio of entire "classes" (that is, given sets of wpf/attribute/skill conditions). Everything else is meaningless, or at best, we don't know how meaningful it is. Like k/d. Greater is best, but how really does it influence your average multi ? And even W/L or average multi (which are univocally linked) don't capture the relative fun spoiling factor (for example I think most melee prefer fighting melee than having to chase archers, shielders included).

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

Heh, melee asking for a removal of ladders were asked to "adapt" so I guess this was only very predictable.

Many archers were pro removing ladders, but these things people tend to forget very fast

[Overdriven]

Well this thread has now reached more pages than the swing delay whine thread so I reckon it must be time to revert this.

1 more death.. but meh. Here ya go. Archery realy isnt as nerfed as many think. But i urge developers to focus on cav nerfs now.

WTF is with this circle jerk of nerfs? How can you even suggest nerfing cav again? You realise that it goes like this:

Nerf archers because to many of them
Nerf various melee weapons in various ways because one or more has become OP
Nerf cav because nerfing archers and various melee weapons made them OP
O no cav can't kill as many archers and they are hiding on roofs. Nerf archers again.
O wait another melee weapon has become OP because we nerfed it's counter. Nerf that.
Suggestion, cav is to strong because archers now suck...nerf cav AGAIN.

This keeps happening. How long are we going to keep nerfing classes because one outweighs another due to some previous nerf? Even with the odd buff thrown in there, they are usually to insignificant to make a difference.

And when is something going to be done about fixing HA. Damage nerf probably affected HA more than any other because headshots are by far the hardest for us.

[Ylca]

Well ylca....

And now think in that direction....

Archery gets easier and the same guys scoring awesome k/d now, would score even better.....

Archery can be deadly, it is possible in case u play it right.
If you dont score that well, your playing style is wrong, dont you think?

Its like trying to turnfight in a Fw 190 against a spitfire. Its not gonna happen....because you simply play it wrong.


And as a sidenote...:

How many really good melee players are out there?
Its the same thing there ;-)

Okay so great archers get a great k/d while all other archers inch back towards medicore. This is a problem Meanwhile we have this doublethink where we all accept that most CRPG players are terrible at melee and manual blocking, yet somehow it's very skillful to get in a fight where either

A. You have at ton of HP and armor and you can miss 10 blocks and kill with one

or

B. You have a ton of agi and can circle and dance and get plenty of kills cause no one can keep up.

These are examples of great skill whereas pulling fucking trajectory calculations on the fly as achers have to do while needing multiple shots to kill is still considered so OP that archery got another nerf. Again this is why i say this is a terrible beta community. Nerf the things you don't like into oblivion, ignore everything else until the game is completely unbalanced and worthless.

That right hand swing delay lasted for all of two seconds because people whined about it, now swinging right gets plenty of kills, yet no one complains about "skill" then.

Most people in CRPG are hypocrites who only want the best for their team and fuck the rest of the mod balance and the sad thing is that the devs listen while absolutely ignoring the few people who put in valid feedback, test issues, and actually go on servers and take the time to compile real data.

10 Nerf archery threads get a response but the two people who go on servers and show that arrows do next to no damage to most targets by testing, taking screenshots, and showing their data get completely ignored.

It's balance by mob and it's why there are massive changes every patch. Most games make incremental changes after months of playtesting, CRPG makes huge changes after weeks of one class bitching about a class they never play while ignoring other classes that are massively popular.

Is there any reason that a massive 2her should ever swing faster than a tiny 1h? No, but that's never going to be patched out because 2hers are popular.

Beta. What a fucking joke, this is a high school popularity contest.

[cmp]

10 Nerf archery threads get a response but the two people who go on servers and show that arrows do next to no damage to most targets by testing, taking screenshots, and showing their data get completely ignored.

Yes, liars get completely ignored.

[Dezilagel]

Okay so great archers get a great k/d while all other archers inch back towards medicore. This is a problem Meanwhile we have this doublethink where we all accept that most CRPG players are terrible at melee and manual blocking, yet somehow it's very skillful to get in a fight where either

A. You have at ton of HP and armor and you can miss 10 blocks and kill with one

or

B. You have a ton of agi and can circle and dance and get plenty of kills cause no one can keep up.

B. is obviously a case of you outplaying your opponent. I always have a chance, even on my str 1h.

But no, noone thinks A. is skillful. But then, you will never be able to beat anyone decent consistently with thatkind of "tactic". I honestly don't see the problem here. A nerf to str and armor? Sure you could argue for it, but the majority of the 2h community are NOT 30 str plate monsters.

[v/onMega]

Okay so great archers get a great k/d while all other archers inch back towards medicore. This is a problem Meanwhile we have this doublethink where we all accept that most CRPG players are terrible at melee and manual blocking, yet somehow it's very skillful to get in a fight where either

A. You have at ton of HP and armor and you can miss 10 blocks and kill with one

or

B. You have a ton of agi and can circle and dance and get plenty of kills cause no one can keep up.

These are examples of great skill whereas pulling fucking trajectory calculations on the fly as achers have to do while needing multiple shots to kill is still considered so OP that archery got another nerf. Again this is why i say this is a terrible beta community. Nerf the things you don't like into oblivion, ignore everything else until the game is completely unbalanced and worthless.

That right hand swing delay lasted for all of two seconds because people whined about it, now swinging right gets plenty of kills, yet no one complains about "skill" then.

Most people in CRPG are hypocrites who only want the best for their team and fuck the rest of the mod balance and the sad thing is that the devs listen while absolutely ignoring the few people who put in valid feedback, test issues, and actually go on servers and take the time to compile real data.

10 Nerf archery threads get a response but the two people who go on servers and show that arrows do next to no damage to most targets by testing, taking screenshots, and showing their data get completely ignored.

It's balance by mob and it's why there are massive changes every patch. Most games make incremental changes after months of playtesting, CRPG makes huge changes after weeks of one class bitching about a class they never play while ignoring other classes that are massively popular.

Is there any reason that a massive 2her should ever swing faster than a tiny 1h? No, but that's never going to be patched out because 2hers are popular.

Beta. What a fucking joke, this is a high school popularity contest.

Oh boy, you are overheating on that one.

You think that min / max arguementation will make you seem eloquent and objective?

No sir.

You state examples that make up for ~5 % of the playerbase....

About deflection gunnery....well I play Il2, and you deflect 40 degree angles or more at speeds well over 700 km/ h sometimes......WHILE USING a throttle, a joystick and peddals.

Now tell me you cant deflect shots on obj. that move @ 10 km/h or 40 km/h while using ur mouse.


Btw....in every shooter headshot aim seperates the casuals from the good players ;-)

[Overdriven]

Btw....in every shooter headshot aim seperates the casuals from the good players ;-)

It does...but that's because the accuracy usually allows for more headshots. In crpg it doesn't.

[Ylca]

Oh boy, you are overheating on that one.

You think that min / max arguementation will make you seem eloquent and objective?

No sir.

You state examples that make up for ~5 % of the playerbase....

About deflection gunnery....well I play Il2, and you deflect 40 degree angles or more at speeds well over 700 km/ h sometimes......WHILE USING a throttle, a joystick and peddals.

Now tell me you cant deflect shots on obj. that move @ 10 km/h or 40 km/h while using ur mouse.


Btw....in every shooter headshot aim seperates the casuals from the good players ;-)

I apologize,i should have said 8PS and 8IF and lower tier heavy armor i'm not talking black plate but even Dhurizina Elite is enough for me to laugh at all ranged now, is that better? Drop into a server one day and see how many people are in 50+ armor points with an obviously decent amount of PS. Then check how many archers are getting kills and how many agi builds there are. I play almost every day and i see the same thing every day.

[Mtemtko]

Btw....in every shooter headshot aim seperates the casuals from the good players ;-)

Btw....in every shooter headshot aim seperates the shitty internet connection from the good internet connection. That works too, doesnt it?

[SquishMitten]

I don't think archers should be getting a lot of kills, I think they are a support class meant for weakening other infantry, killing horses and finishing off wounded players

[Gristle]

Btw....in every shooter headshot aim seperates the casuals from the good players ;-)

This isn't Call of Duty, and my Crossbow is not a super accurate sniper rifle with a x12 scope (the zoom feature is hardly the same thing). This change was some poor developer's sloppy attempt to make archery more like a modern shooter. Is that really what we want? If so, please let me shoot while jumping again so I can properly bunny hop my way to victory.

I don't think archers should be getting a lot of kills, I think they are a support class meant for weakening other infantry, killing horses and finishing off wounded players

If I am playing a support class, then my weapons should be lowered in price to accurately depict that.

[Jambi]

Did YOU decide that? Did anyone ASK them if they wanted to be a support class? STFU with "support" class, there's no medics here, the job of archers is to RAPE 2handers, cav and shieldless polespammer. ABSOLUTELY RAPE them. RAPE them so easily, they must hide and wait for shielders. That WAS their job and still should be, not some luckshooters who have to hit head hitboxes in a game where head hitboxes are folded out of the material plane of excistance each time the target starts spamming feints. Archery has been effectively removed from the mod as a class. Some will hang on, the same ones who ppl think are good now, like Jambi and Hetman, because although they are not good at melee OR at fighting other archers, they are persistant. And that is THE ONLY way to play archer now: Surive untill most enemies are badly wounded and mop them up. Horse archery has been ACTUALLY removed from the mod: You see maybe 2 a day.

ALL of this because bundle of sticks 2handers and polespammers dont like that they are rock, and paper beats them. Game was built that way, and last year of patches has been trying to fix a nonexistant problem.

I dodnt even understand why any of this is under discussion: Just lock EU1 to melee only and then all heros can be happy. Fucking pussies. Just cause you cant fight it doesnt make it broken, it means you fail. Change your playstyle, not the game.

You sir, should do more research and less herpy derpy