Author Topic: New ranged change  (Read 38904 times)

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Offline Old_Sir_Agor

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #165 on: January 17, 2012, 08:53:51 pm »
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Check his «effective wpf», do you really think that he can aim?

All what he receive with his +4PD is +6 damage, in comparison with 6PD 180 wpf archer.

try to look xbow dmg in this calculator, it says that i have min dmg of 60 or so in 50 armor guy, but i cant do it today)
shooting at people from a reachable place as last man standing is not delaying. Even if you're on the other side of the map.

Offline Jacko

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #166 on: January 17, 2012, 09:06:14 pm »
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Soon back to native values.
Monkeys!

Offline Cup1d

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #167 on: January 17, 2012, 09:08:00 pm »
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I'm not too lazy Agor

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Where did you find your 60 minimal damage?
Also IIRC it shows damage at point blank shot.

And check your 160 effective wpf.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 09:09:13 pm by Cup1d »

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #168 on: January 17, 2012, 09:13:59 pm »
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these are values for naked ppl tho...AND, is calculator 100% accurate and uptodate?

Also, to those saying I dont know archery....I've played crpg since we had like 24 hours before wipe...I have heirloomed up warbows and longbows to +3, still do it the odd gen, but I just dont do it now because I honestly CBA trying for headshots when for less money I can swing an elegant poleaxe or a flamberge, neither of which goes thru people half as often as arrows do. If you dont believe me that arrows go through players 20% of the time, ask whoever you think is the best archer you know.
I don't know enough

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Offline Meow

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #169 on: January 17, 2012, 09:54:33 pm »
+14
Well, after playing this for a few days now it seems pretty obvious that the ladder removal was a good decision, the body/head damage change was not.

I am saying this as someone who has nothing to do with balancing at all and also as someone who never cared about getting shot/smashed/lanced whatever, also i play a high Str polearm build without a shield so i am pretty much exposed to any incoming ranged fire.

All ranged classes except for super fast spam bows are now almost useless.
Headshots are nothing you do like in a shooter where aiming is everything.
You need a good portion of luck and you get most tries at a decent range using a fast bow.

So instead of making stuff like the Longbow useful it got nerfed further to the point where it is basically useless as you don't have a long enough optimal accuracy window to actually be effective although it's the most expensive bow and supposed to be the best choice at least in some way.
Throwing lances... you get one ammo per slot and you need two even for light/medium armored people EXCEPT you do a headshot with those pin point accuracy lances at which point they will do enough damage to kill you twice.

Along with that, cav got an indirect buff as horses take 33% less body damage like players.
So now ranged has no roofs and need 1/3rd longer to take down everything except they get lucky and hit the head.

What needs to happen is a nerf for ranged spam and a buff for the accurate ranged players, making headshots count more and everything else less, this already was the case since native.
No need to change it from where it was to be even more significant.
Rather reduce the accuracy on fast bows and make long range shooting something for the longbow guys.
Same basically goes for X-Bows, Throwing never was that accurate but suffered most from the nerf as far as i can tell (respecced to polearms before the nerf hit).

Also we need anti cav spikes asap and a possible revert on the 33% less body damage on horses.

The other option would be a complete ranged revamp for this damage change but that seems out of question.

As i said, i don't really whine about getting ganked by ranged stuff and to be honest it never really happend to me before the patch, I think I died like 1 out of 10 times from ranged stuff.

Now i either die from a lucky headshot or kill the ranged dude even if he gets 10+ shots on me.
It's just sad =(

FREE RANGED!

Edit: Just fixed some typos and stuff.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:34:50 pm by Meow »

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #170 on: January 17, 2012, 09:58:48 pm »
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FREE RANGED!

GLEAT READER HAS SHPOKEN!
I don't know enough

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Offline karasu

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #171 on: January 17, 2012, 09:59:33 pm »
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #172 on: January 17, 2012, 10:00:41 pm »
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Surely he would just set all official servers to melee only and tell the whiners to get fucked?
I don't know enough

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Offline LastKaze

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #173 on: January 17, 2012, 10:01:44 pm »
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Well, after playing this for a few days now it seems pretty obvious that the ladder removal was a good decision, the body/head damage change was not.

I am saying this as someone who has nothing to do with balancing at all and also as someone who never cared about getting shot/smashed/lanced whatever, also i play a high Str polearm build without a shield so i am pretty much exposed to any incoming ranged fire.

All ranged classes except for super fast spam bows are now almost useless.
Headshots are nothing you do like in a shooter where aiming is everything.
You need a good portion of luck and you get most tries at a decent range using a fast bow.

So instead of making stuff like the Longbow useful it got nerfed further to the point where it is basically useless as you don't have a long enough optimal accuracy window to actually be effective although it's the most expensive bow and supposed to be the best choice at least in some way.
Throwing lances... you get one ammo per slot and you need two even for light/medium armored people EXCEPT you do a headshot with those pin point accuracy lances at which point they will do enough damage to kill you twice.

Along with that, cav got an indirect buff as horses take 33% less body damage like players.
So now ranged has no roofs and need 1/3rd longer to take down everything except they get lucky and hit the head.

What needs to happen is a nerf for ranged spam and a buff for the accurate ranged players, making headshots count more and everything else less was already the case since native.
No need to change it from where it was to be even more significant.
Rather reduce the accuracy on fast bows and make long range shooting something for the longbow guys.
Same basically goes for X-Bows, Throwing never was that accurate but suffered most from the nerf as far as i can tell (respecced to polearms before the nerf hit).

Also we need anti cav spikes asap and a possible revert on the 33% less body damage on horses.

The other option would be a complete ranged revamp for this damage change but that seems out of question.

As i said, i don't really whine about getting ganked by ranged stuff and to be honest it never really happend to me before the patch, I think I died like 1 out of 10 times from ranged stuff.

Now i either die from a lucky headshot or kill the ranged dude even if he gets 10+ shots on me.
It's just sad =(

FREE RANGED!
Meow For President!
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Offline Arrowblood

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #174 on: January 17, 2012, 10:42:35 pm »
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long range kills  have been a big fun factor for me and other longbow/arbalest users since the big patch cos they are very rare i think. What you need for a long range kill is experiance a minnimum of luck  and a weapon with the correct damage for long ranges( isnt really working now). Its not impossiple now but more based on a lucky headshot. I talk about ranges  between the camping teams on random plains for example. Im still able to play but hmmm.... HARD nerfed. Its more like using a shotgun from5-10 m

Offline STOPHammerTime

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #175 on: January 17, 2012, 11:23:18 pm »
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Save us Meow!

You bring nothing positive to any game server except making a nice easy target for cav and archers.

Offline Gristle

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #176 on: January 17, 2012, 11:31:56 pm »
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Thank you, Meow. At least one developer now sees our complaints as legitimate, and is nice enough to give a serious reply.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #177 on: January 17, 2012, 11:34:00 pm »
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I for one think C-RPG is better after these changes. It will take time for people to adjust, but I think the genuinely good ranged players will be rewarded while the mediocre/poor will have to get better or change their playstyle. If you fail in melee you die..miss as an archer and you just try again, then if someone gets too close retreat towards friendly melee players. Ranged isn't quite PVP (compared to infantry/cav) so it MUST be player skill based in other ways. It should be hard imo rather than point and click with fast projectiles at the body.

If it needs tweaks then fine, but I wouldn't like to see it reverted to spamming body shots for 1 or 2 hit kills. People still die to body shots, I've seen plenty.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:36:59 pm by Grumbs »
If you have ranged troubles use this:

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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #178 on: January 17, 2012, 11:40:52 pm »
+1
You keep talking about skill based archery.  With the size of the reticle and inaccuracy of the bows and xbows getting a head shot is luck based.

Offline Old_Sir_Agor

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Re: New ranged change
« Reply #179 on: January 17, 2012, 11:40:56 pm »
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I for one think C-RPG is better after these changes. It will take time for people to adjust, but I think the genuinely good ranged players will be rewarded while the mediocre/poor will have to get better or change their playstyle. If you fail in melee you die..miss as an archer and you just try again, then if someone gets too close retreat towards friendly melee players. Ranged isn't quite PVP (compared to infantry/cav) so it MUST be player skill based in other ways. It should be hard imo rather than point and click with fast projectiles at the body.

If it needs tweaks then fine, but I wouldn't like to see it reverted to spamming body shots for 1 or 2 hit kills. People still die to body shots, I've seen plenty.

grumbs maybe devs make your weapon do also 33% less dmg, just because i want it, think it will be cool, and i think you will have some kills anyway, so why no?
shooting at people from a reachable place as last man standing is not delaying. Even if you're on the other side of the map.