Crush-Through on Bar Mace and Long Iron Mace

[cmp]

On a slow, unbalanced weapon that you're never going to hit a skilled opponent with? Nope, it most certainly is NOT enough. It will be outclassed by TONS of swords that are, again, "longer, faster, and about equal in damage to it".

Slow? It has the same speed that the Sword of War has.
Unbalanced? What's the big deal with that anyway? It's only a problem for feint spammers.

[Gorath]

On a slow, unbalanced weapon that you're never going to hit a skilled opponent with? Nope, it most certainly is NOT enough. It will be outclassed by TONS of swords that are, again, "longer, faster, and about equal in damage to it".

Ok, this argument works for me.  Now buff my mancleaver.

Unbalanced? What's the big deal with that anyway? It's only a problem for feint spammers.

In duels unbalanced can totally fuck you because you can't emergency correct to pull your swing in order to block or swap attack directions.  It's a huge drawback against skilled opponents.  Also it makes it far easier to TK when idiot teammates run in front of you in their kill-greed-frenzy as once your swing has started fully you can't stop the swing like with any other weapon without the unbalanced tag.  Unbalanced is actually quite a huge penalty.

[Babelfish]

On a slow, unbalanced weapon that you're never going to hit a skilled opponent with? Nope, it most certainly is NOT enough. It will be outclassed by TONS of swords that are, again, "longer, faster, and about equal in damage to it".

Well not every weapon can be equal. It might come as a shock to you, but there exist people in this mod that take style over effectiveness (not only speaking of my clan). If every weapon was on par, this would be a boring and linear experience.

So of-course there should be weapons far better then this -cheap- weapon. But for a blunt weapon, it has high speed & damage (its actually as fast as the best swords) with equal damage (+ its blunt, better vs armored targets). The downside is of-course the unbalanced aspect of the weapon.

The barmace and weapons like it, was never duel weapons, its effective in battles where people are less prone to block. If you want to have nice fights with skilled opponents pick another weapon..

[Magikarp]

Well not every weapon can be equal. It might come as a shock to you, but there exist people in this mod that take style over effectiveness (not only speaking of my clan). If every weapon was on par, this would be a boring and linear experience.

So of-course there should be weapons far better then this -cheap- weapon. But for a blunt weapon, it has high speed & damage (its actually as fast as the best swords) with equal damage (+ its blunt, better vs armored targets). The downside is of-course the unbalanced aspect of the weapon.

The barmace and weapons like it, was never duel weapons, its effective in battles where people are less prone to block. If you want to have nice fights with skilled opponents pick another weapon..

Lol, your clan kept on whining about buffing the katana and nodachi untill you were satisfied lol.

The occasional crushtrough on 6-7 ps/no heirloom is the only reason to choose the weapon right now, besides the OP heirloomed version. There are better high tier weapons out there imo, I would even choose the Morningstar above this.

[Babelfish]

Lol, your clan kept on whining about buffing the katana and nodachi untill you were satisfied lol.

The occasional crushtrough on 6-7 ps/no heirloom is the only reason to choose the weapon right now, besides the OP heirloomed version. There are better high tier weapons out there imo, I would even choose the Morningstar above this.

Off-topic: Only partial true, they reduced the speed, we did not like it. They gave us back the speed and nerfed the weight instead. I think it was the shogunate that wanted the nodachi to regain its former stats, we had nothing to do with that. 

The katana we now use are worse then pre-big-patch.

[zagibu]

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing less barmaces on the battlefield. It's kind of an exotic weapon. Same holds true for katana and nodachi, dadao and miadao. In general, there are too many ninjas in the game. I say nerf lamellar armor .

[ManOfWar]

Slow? It has the same speed that the Sword of War has.
Unbalanced? What's the big deal with that anyway? It's only a problem for feint spammers.

its overhand cannot be spammed, this piece of shit is cheap and OP

[bruce]

Also it makes it far easier to TK when idiot teammates run in front of you in their kill-greed-frenzy as once your swing has started fully you can't stop the swing like with any other weapon without the unbalanced tag.

That's not a penalty, Gorath.

[EponiCo]

I'm not sure if you are serious, but yes it is. Kind of the only advantage the bec has currently over long hafted mace. Might be not big enough though.

[Banok]

Ok.
It doesn't make sense from a balance point of view, it's a very powerful mechanic that has no place whatsoever on weapons with 90+ speed / 80+ length.
It doesn't make sense from a realism point of view, especially with a shape/distribution of weight like the Bar Mace.
Therefore, it doesn't make any sense -> removed.

If changing the crush-through calculation and mechanics was possible, we could have found another solution. Unfortunately, it's not.

its a shame you can't change the mechanics so I guess removing it is the only option and very reasonable. BUT refusing to rebalance the weapon after you remove its key feature is just immature/lazy/mean

Crushtrough gets removed, unbalanced doesn't, you don't get to change your heirlooms.

PS: it needs a new stab animation too.

Obviously we cant DEMAND stuff, but its a legitmate request and blanket refusal is just griefing your playerbase.

[Banok]

This is why no one can argue bar mace current stats will be balanced without crush though:


Long Hafted Spiked Mace   4745   
weight 3
requirement 13
spd rtng 94
weapon length 138
swing damage 34, blunt (1 less damage)
thrust damage 20 blunt
Knockdown


Bar Mace   5150   
weight 4.5
requirement 13
spd rtng 92 (SLOWER)
weapon length 96 (MUCH LESS REACH)
swing damage 35, blunt
thrust damage 0 blunt (NO STAB)
Unbalanced (OMG)
Knockdown

[cmp]

BUT refusing to rebalance the weapon after you remove its key feature is just immature/lazy/mean

It's funny how "not removing unbalanced" becomes "refusing to rebalance the weapon". Did I say anything about not changing other stats?
Thinking before posting wouldn't hurt.

[Vexus]

Can you please give the 2h thrust animation on the long iron mace back

It's one of the reasons I no longer use it as the pole thrust on a short weapon makes it feel weird and not to say very short range.

[Banok]

Touche

Refusal to rebalance the weapon just seemed implied by the way you pretty much were like:

STFU you barmacers ent getting shit, so you can just rage quit or grind to 31 again. this is our game, QQ bundle of sticks!

[Blackstone]

In reading between the lines of this thread, I do not understand why having had a 1:3 heirloom respec in January matters in deciding to implement another heirloom respec in the next patch. This is supposed to be a fun game for everyone to play, and people are supposed to change their minds, playstyles, desires etc. This is not about control, or parents setting rules and children abiding by them, or learning lessons from lost opportunities or mistakes, or anything else. This is an online game to provide adults as well as children with fun, an escape from reality, an opportunity to bond with each other, and enjoy our lives just a little bit more. This is the point of Mods, and my understanding of cRPG, so why so much reluctance to make everyone happy? I honestly do not get it.

Allowing everyone to respect heirlooms 1:1 provides

• Everyone who owns any heirloomed item being significantly changed with an exchange option so they do not feel they lost time
• Provides opportunity for players to try different play styles without feeling they wasted time on previously heirloomed armor or weapons

For example, someone who invested heirlooms into heavy armor and plays heavy strength, can decide instead to play light armor with high agility without feeling they wasted time if they change play styles, or worse they decide not to change playstyle to avoid feeling they wasted time. Same applies to the Bar Mace, except that a core functionality of the Bar Mace is being removed.

Help me understand why the process of polishing an excellent game and maintaining integrity of balance is in contradiction to helping everyone feel happy? Character and heirloom respecs allow for all of this to occur all at once.